New project from Luthier: DCS WWII [Target complete]

[billeinstein]

Their job

ED is gracious enough to allow us to use their existing P-51 and Dora in RRG's DCS WWII product. Actually, RRG is partially responsible for the Dora (our guys built the cockpit) but all the rights belong to ED.

[JG52Uther]

I'm in! Can never have too many flight sims IMO.

[Chivas]

Originally Posted by swiss

And who was responsible for that?
I would really like to know who is would be responsible for planning, leading and controlling this project. Furthermore I am pretty sure 100k will be nowhere near enough to finance the the basic planes and map he mentioned.

They are visionaries, brilliant engineers on their field, yet I fail to see how they want so ensure they stay on track.

I'm sure there is plenty of blame to spread around between the IC investors, Oleg, Luthier, and other individual team members. That said Maddox Games managed to create an awesome sandbox that Team Fusion is now finishing/refining proving the potential so many of us couldn't/wouldn't see.

Personally I think Kickstarter is a wonderful tool for combat sim developers to keep control of their efforts, instead of eventually handing over complete control to investors. It also demands the developer become far more responsible for their own actions, and not depending on the investor for that next paycheck, as the kickstarter monies do not keep coming in. We are now the prime investors, not the beancounters. I'd much rather see my monies in the developers pockets as apposed to investors who have more than enough money of their own.

[MiloMorai]

$100,000

Standard project features


$375,000

Everything at the previous level, plus:
A flyable Hawker Typhoon IB
A flyable FW.190A-5
Single-player campaign for the Typhoon
Single-player campaign for the FW.190


$550,000

Everything at the previous level, plus:
A flyable Douglas A-26B-15 Invader
A flyable Messerschmitt Me.262A-1
Ardennes, new large gameplay map
Single-player campaign for the A-26
Single-player campaign for the Me.262
A Luftwaffe Fighter and a US Fighter campaign for the Battle of the Bulge.


$750,000

Everything at the previous level, plus:
A flyable Lockheed P-38J-15
A flyable de Havilland Mosquito FB.VI
Single-player campaign for the P-38
Single-player campaign for the Mosquito


$1,000,000

Everything at the previous level, plus:
A flyable Boeing B-17
A flyable Luftwaffe plane (Me 410 A or Ju 88, as voted for by the backers)
Romania, new large gameplay map
4 new single-player campaigns for the new aircraft and theaters


http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/...ii-europe-1944

[JG52Uther]

If anyone is on the fence:There is a nice competition at the ATAG forum for pledgers.A set of MFG Crosswind rudder pedals is on offer ffrom Bliss.

http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.co...8337#post58337

[Art-J]

Originally Posted by zapatista

like what ?

re DCS, i'd say the exact opposite. they are known for their solid track record in regularly producing new high quality combat flightsim elements. they do keep to their deadlines, work with a small team, and their larger more ambitious new projects (like their new gfx engine, EDGE) are not given a firm release date until very close to completion.

for the eager beavers they provide a beta product purchase system that provides significant advantages, not only do you get to play around with your new toy early, most beta stage releases are usually already pretty good and they will give you a significant discount on the final purchase price for doing so. cant be more fair then that imho

for their finished flightsim products, their netcode is solid, they have a good multiplayer function, a very advanced mission builder that provides a dynamic campaign function, and their avionics, flightmodels, and weapons systems and ballistics are very good (near military sim grade basically). my only gripe with them is that the modern era in flightsims is just not my cup 'a tea, and i'd wish they would focus more on ww2 or korean era (which we are about to receive now in the next year).

Ehm, that's a bit of a rose-tinted-glasses look over here, especially re. regularity and keeping the dealines. Nowadays, ED guys are mostly known for two things: a) detailed study sims (I'm OK with that); b) neverending stories of "we're working on it", serioulsy delayed releases and neverending beta-status projects (I'm not OK with that). Ironically, the only modules, which were built and released reasonably fast this year (UH-1 and Mi-8TW) were made by 3rd party company (Belsimtek). The upcoming detailed MiG-21 module is also a 3rd party job.

Their GFX engine has also never been properly optimized for modern hardware, hence everybody waiting for EDGE (almost like for some kind of Holy Grail, which will finally speed up the development in the DCS universe).

These factors, coupled with questionable record of Luthier (I'm thinking about his management of PF and CoD) makes me a bit cautious about this upcoming WWII project. I'd love to see it completed, but for now, I'll just wait and see how things unfold.

[Les]

Originally Posted by swiss

...I would really like to know who is would be responsible for planning, leading and controlling this project. Furthermore I am pretty sure 100k will be nowhere near enough to finance the the basic planes and map he mentioned...

From the Kickstarter page -

"The money being raised (via Kickstarter) is only a portion of the development budget. The majority of the programming, including engine improvements, new landscape engine, large chunk of aircraft and object programming, some aircraft art, and more, are costs (on top of the Kickstarter budget) that the team is funding internally.

The initial kickstarter goal is needed to fund a longer more extensive beta testing period for the game, giving all its components extra polish, and to make the game landscape more alive by creating a larger variety of ground objects and vehicles, and spending more time to hand-craft various historical areas such as accurate recreations of more coastline villages, important bridges, unique airfields, and more."

As far as planning, leading and controlling the project -

"...Oleg Maddox will act as the team’s advisor, distilling the wishes of the fans into design decisions, and making sure they properly translate into something that satisfies the fans today as well as in the long run. As the team’s foremost expert on aircraft performance and WWII history, Oleg will act as the ultimate quality control on the game, ensuring it meets the highest possible standards of both historical accuracy and playability."

"...Ilya Shevchenko will act as the project’s lead producer. He will take part in all design decisions while managing the day-to-day operations, assigning and tracking tasks, and keeping everyone on their toes. As a member of a relatively small team, Ilya will, as always, dabble in most tasks first-hands, working on the game’s landscapes, building missions, managing voice recordings, and generally making sure things get done."

"Igor Tishin is the driving force behind the successes of Eagle Dynamics over the past 20 years...Igor will oversee all engine and flight dynamics work on the project. Putting the same effort into the historical accuracy and realism as he did into the recent DCS: P-51 release, Igor will ensure the new WWII aircraft built for this project will satisfy the most discriminating expert."

[Les]

Originally Posted by Art-J

...I'd love to see it completed, but for now, I'll just wait and see how things unfold.

I agree there's cause for uncertainty, but this is a situation where sitting back and waiting to see what happens is actually detrimental to the chances of the thing working at all. If the Kickstarter campaign fails, nobody even gets the chance to see what the developers can come up with.

In the past developers and publishers would put out a product and if it failed financially, at least you still had the product (you just wouldn't get any sequels or add-ons). Nowadays, with investors less willing to take risks, the end-user has to pay upfront just to get anyone working on the project at all.

Remember too that if the Kickstarter campaign fails, no money is actually taken from those who pledged. In that way, the initial Kickstarter campaign is just as much about seeing if there's an audience at all anymore for detailed combat flight sims as it is about raising money for a particular project.

In my opinion DCS:WWII and BoS should both be supported just to keep the genre of realistic combat flight sims alive and keep the door open for further advancements and developments in the field. The developers have their responsibilities and roles to play in that, but so too does the end-user.

This isn't the time for indulging in skepticism and doubt or for sitting back and letting the cards fall where they may. If people want to keep flying in these games/sims, the developers need to keep coming up with the goods and the end-users need to let it be known in advance that there's an audience/market for them.

[lensman1945]

Originally Posted by Les

I agree there's cause for uncertainty, but this is a situation where sitting back and waiting to see what happens is actually detrimental to the chances of the thing working at all. If the Kickstarter campaign fails, nobody even gets the chance to see what the developers can come up with.

In the past developers and publishers would put out a product and if it failed financially, at least you still had the product (you just wouldn't get any sequels or add-ons). Nowadays, with investors less willing to take risks, the end-user has to pay upfront just to get anyone working on the project at all.

Remember too that if the Kickstarter campaign fails, no money is actually taken from those who pledged. In that way, the initial Kickstarter campaign is just as much about seeing if there's an audience at all anymore for detailed combat flight sims as it is about raising money for a particular project.

In my opinion DCS:WWII and BoS should both be supported just to keep the genre of realistic combat flight sims alive and keep the door open for further advancements and developments in the field. The developers have their responsibilities and roles to play in that, but so too does the end-user.

This isn't the time for indulging in skepticism and doubt or for sitting back and letting the cards fall where they may. If people want to keep flying in these games/sims, the developers need to keep coming up with the goods and the end-users need to let it be known in advance that there's an audience/market for them.

Very well explained Les

[JG52Uther]

Luthier posted at kickstarter.ALL planes at DCS quality, and I would LOVE a flyable B17:

Also, a little clarification since a lot of people seem to be writing about this.
Here's what happens if we hit our base goal, but no stretch goals.
The final product that is released will have the following content:
FREE Flyable P-47
FREE Flyable Spitfire
FREE Flyable Bf.109
FREE Non-Flyable P-51 (can be made flyable for an additional fee)
FREE Non-Flyable FW.190D (can be made flyable for an additional fee)
FREE Non-Flyable B-17 (cannot be made flyable)
FREE Non-Flyable Me.262 (cannot be made flyable)
If you back the project at a $20 level, you will receive either the FW.190D or the P-51 as a flyable.
If you back the project at a $40 level, you will receive BOTH the FW.190D and the P-51 as flyables.
Now, if we hit stretch goals, then all additional aircraft will be seen by everyone as non-flyables, but will be available as a flyable for a fee. If you back at a $20 level, you will choose any ONE of the paid flyables. If you back at a $40 level, you will still receive ALL the paid flyables on release.
If we end up meeting our ultimate $1million stretch goal, that means you will receive 13 aircraft for backing at a $40 level or above.
And yes, all aircraft will be made to the same level of quality and high standards as the DCS P-51.