A flyable GST?

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by Verdun1916

Yes, I read that! And I do know very well what an amphibious aircraft is. But I was hoping for a more in deapth aswner to my question. In what way does the game lack the capacity to handle aircraft that can land and take off on both land and water. Is it the AI that can't handle both options for one and the same aircraft? Or is it some limitation on the aircraft themself that makes it impossible to have a workable landing gear on an aircraft with a shiplike hull?

My apologies for the confusion.

I'm not a programmer either, but my understanding is that amphibious landing capacity wasn't built into the game, but could easily be added.

Currently, there's nothing preventing the addition of amphibious planes in land-only or sea-only versions, but that's just "clunky" and not realistic or fun either, since the whole point of having amphibious planes is their land/sea operations potential. It also requires 2 "slots" for the same aircraft, which is wasteful.

Therefore, the only real option is to do some programming work to allow amphibious ops.

AI would have to be slightly modified to make sure that AI planes keep their wheels retracted when making a water landing/take-off, and extended for land take-offs/landings, and that retractable sponsons/wing floats get extended/retracted as necesssary. (Unless you want to introduce pilot error into the game!)

A new key would need to be bound to allow player-flyable planes to extend or retract sponsons or wing-tip floats (not just for amphibious planes, for but any flying boat which had these features).

But, FWIW, IL2 can't and doesn't model water behavior, much less the interaction of water, wind, and objects in the game world. That would require massive amounts of new programming, essentially making a new sim. That makes truly realistic seaplane ops impossible, although I don't think it would be that hard to "fake" certain wind and wave effects by increasing or decreasing water or wind effects when you're within X distance of a certain object or if you're flying at Y angle compared to wind direction. "Bobbing" effects for aircraft on water could also be made more severe as wind speed increases, but there would be no corresponding animations in the game to show the heavier seas.

[Verdun1916]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

My apologies for the confusion.

I'm not a programmer either, but my understanding is that amphibious landing capacity wasn't built into the game, but could easily be added.

Currently, there's nothing preventing the addition of amphibious planes in land-only or sea-only versions, but that's just "clunky" and not realistic or fun either, since the whole point of having amphibious planes is their land/sea operations potential. It also requires 2 "slots" for the same aircraft, which is wasteful.

Therefore, the only real option is to do some programming work to allow amphibious ops.

AI would have to be slightly modified to make sure that AI planes keep their wheels retracted when making a water landing/take-off, and extended for land take-offs/landings, and that retractable sponsons/wing floats get extended/retracted as necesssary. (Unless you want to introduce pilot error into the game!)

A new key would need to be bound to allow player-flyable planes to extend or retract sponsons or wing-tip floats (not just for amphibious planes, for but any flying boat which had these features).

But, FWIW, IL2 can't and doesn't model water behavior, much less the interaction of water, wind, and objects in the game world. That would require massive amounts of new programming, essentially making a new sim. That makes truly realistic seaplane ops impossible, although I don't think it would be that hard to "fake" certain wind and wave effects by increasing or decreasing water or wind effects when you're within X distance of a certain object or if you're flying at Y angle compared to wind direction. "Bobbing" effects for aircraft on water could also be made more severe as wind speed increases, but there would be no corresponding animations in the game to show the heavier seas.

Thank you! You have given me a far better understanding of the issue now!

[RPS69]

Have you ever tried the worst climate at sea?
Don´t remember the name of it, but waves are there...

[RPS69]

Have some fun:

[MAIN]
MAP MTO/load_light.ini
TIME 12.0
CloudType 6
CloudHeight 1000.0
player IN_NN00
army 2
playerNum 0
[SEASON]
Year 1940
Month 6
Day 15
[WEATHER]
WindDirection 0.0
WindSpeed 0.0
Gust 10
Turbulence 5
[MDS]
MDS_Radar_SetRadarToAdvanceMode 0
MDS_Radar_RefreshInterval 0
MDS_Radar_DisableVectoring 0
MDS_Radar_EnableTowerCommunications 1
MDS_Radar_ShipsAsRadar 0
MDS_Radar_ShipRadar_MaxRange 100
MDS_Radar_ShipRadar_MinHeight 100
MDS_Radar_ShipRadar_MaxHeight 5000
MDS_Radar_ShipSmallRadar_MaxRange 25
MDS_Radar_ShipSmallRadar_MinHeight 0
MDS_Radar_ShipSmallRadar_MaxHeight 2000
MDS_Radar_ScoutsAsRadar 0
MDS_Radar_ScoutRadar_MaxRange 2
MDS_Radar_ScoutRadar_DeltaHeight 1500
MDS_Radar_HideUnpopulatedAirstripsFromMinimap 0
MDS_Radar_ScoutGroundObjects_Alpha 5
MDS_Radar_ScoutCompleteRecon 0
MDS_Misc_DisableAIRadioChatter 0
MDS_Misc_DespawnAIPlanesAfterLanding 1
MDS_Misc_HidePlayersCountOnHomeBase 0
MDS_Misc_BombsCat1_CratersVisibilityMultiplier 1.0
MDS_Misc_BombsCat2_CratersVisibilityMultiplier 1.0
MDS_Misc_BombsCat3_CratersVisibilityMultiplier 1.0
[RespawnTime]
Bigship 1800
Ship 1800
Aeroanchored 1800
Artillery 1800
Searchlight 1800
[Wing]
r0100
UM_NN01
IN_NN00
g0101
i0102
IN_NN03
IN_NN10
UM_NN02
[r0100]
Planes 1
Skill 3
Skill1 1
Skill2 1
Skill3 1
Class air.MBR_2AM34
Fuel 100
weapons default
[r0100_Way]
TAKEOFF 130066.49 130032.46 0 0 &0
NORMFLY 110114.22 130084.08 200.00 245.00 &0
NORMFLY 90082.14 129959.66 500.00 245.00 &0
[UM_NN01]
Planes 1
Skill 3
Skill1 1
Skill2 1
Skill3 1
Class air.PBN1
Fuel 100
weapons default
[UM_NN01_Way]
TAKEOFF 130048.58 128974.86 0 0 &0
NORMFLY 110095.95 129001.08 200.00 300.00 &0
NORMFLY 90004.40 128971.93 500.00 300.00 &0
[IN_NN00]
Planes 1
Skill 3
Class air.A6M2N
Fuel 100
weapons default
[IN_NN00_Way]
TAKEOFF 130019.43 128002.30 0 0 &0
NORMFLY 110012.40 127966.33 300.00 300.00 &0
NORMFLY 90006.35 128018.77 500.00 300.00 &0
[g0101]
Planes 1
Skill 3
Class air.AR_196A3
Fuel 100
weapons default
[g0101_Way]
TAKEOFF 130048.58 127029.75 0 0 &0
NORMFLY 110128.02 127017.07 200.00 300.00 &0
NORMFLY 89895.60 127012.19 500.00 300.00 &0
[i0102]
Planes 1
Skill 3
Class air.CantZ506B
Fuel 100
weapons default
[i0102_Way]
TAKEOFF 130018.45 126027.06 0 0 &0
NORMFLY 109984.23 125987.19 200.00 300.00 &0
NORMFLY 90009.27 125951.21 500.00 300.00 &0
[IN_NN03]
Planes 1
Skill 3
Class air.E13A1
Fuel 100
weapons default
[IN_NN03_Way]
TAKEOFF 130021.38 125051.58 0 0 &0
NORMFLY 110178.52 124982.56 200.00 300.00 &0
NORMFLY 89986.95 125034.03 500.00 300.00 &0
[IN_NN10]
Planes 1
Skill 3
Class air.H8K1
Fuel 100
weapons default
[IN_NN10_Way]
TAKEOFF 130046.63 124080.98 0 0 &0
NORMFLY 110011.43 123956.58 200.00 300.00 &0
NORMFLY 90254.07 123981.83 500.00 300.00 &0
[UM_NN02]
Planes 3
Skill 3
Class air.F4F3
Fuel 100
weapons default
[UM_NN02_Way]
TAKEOFF_003 19284.93 130255.60 0 0 0_Chief 0 &0
TRIGGERS 0 0 20 0
NORMFLY 86722.72 127968.89 500.00 300.00 &0
[Chiefs]
0_Chief Ships.USSLexingtonCV2 1 0 2 1.0
[0_Chief_Road]
19907.65 130084.09 120.00 0 2 8.809722900390625
60345.08 129835.23 120.00
[NStationary]
[Buildings]
[Bridge]
[House]



I think this has been toned down. CV movements used to be far more generous on takeoff. Still, I must agree that waves effects only shows a bit while the aircraft is stationary.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by RPS69

Have you ever tried the worst climate at sea?
Don´t remember the name of it, but waves are there...

When there are blind, rain/snow, or thunder conditions the water texture changes to show white crests on the waves. Additionally, motion effects from waves increase under those conditions during carrier or water take-off and landing.

BUT, due to the limits of the IL2 graphics engine, you don't actually have wind speed, terrain, or large objects such as ships, influencing wave height, appearance, or direction. That makes highly realistic seaplane and amphibious ops impossible.

A realistic carrier take-off in moderately heavy seas and high winds would look like this (at about the 2:30 mark):

www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHnwxRfzR2A

This is what a float plane take-off would look like under similar conditions:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzjT_EEk5eI

[Verdun1916]

Thanks for Charing those clips, Pursuivant! Very interesting!

But even if we don't have and there is no way to get these extrem weather conditions for the open water areas I would still love to be able to fly a Catalina or similar amphibious aircraft or other seaplanes and flyingboats in the stock game as it is now. I already love to play around with the A6M2-N. I feel that souch aircrafts would be a great addition to have for the Norway map for example, and the Channel map when that arrives, just to mention a few.

[RPS69]

The clip where the engine falls down is excelent.

[dimlee]

Originally Posted by RPS69

The clip where the engine falls down is excelent.

This one, I guess.

https://youtu.be/Vnhze7UiGbU?t=44s

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by Verdun1916

But even if we don't have and there is no way to get these extrem weather conditions for the open water areas I would still love to be able to fly a Catalina or similar amphibious aircraft or other seaplanes and flyingboats in the stock game as it is now.

I agree. Since we already have the A6M2-N as a flyable plane, there's no reason to not eventually have other seaplanes as flyables.

But, we have to accept that IL2 will never allow for truly realistic seaplane operations because water physics can't be modeled or animated accurately, much less the physics and animations of wind interacting with terrain and water.

What would help seaplane operations a bit would be the option of having sea state (i.e., wave height, distance between waves, current speed, wave direction and current direction) separate from weather conditions, and even wind speed.

It might also be relatively easy to have water motion rocking and drifting effects (but not animations) correspond to wave and current direction and wave height.