4.12 development update discussion and feedback

[shelby]

here it is what i am talking about and it is recorded with 4.11.1 patch

[IceFire]

Not sure what I'm looking for... I see the Oscar shooting at a Hurricane and some back and forth. Several Hurricanes make a sweeping pass and miss. The worst bit I saw was the AI flying Oscar (I didn't see you take the AI off) doing some excessive aileron work to try and maintain a firing solution.

Is that what you mean? Too much rolling? It's not loosing control... it's just rolling to avoid negative G and doing it a lot. A real pilot would probably be sick

[jameson]

I'm currently having an occassional QMB with a p40 (Ace) which flies with psychopathic tendencies. Strangely though he will black out and crash after making too many 8g turns in his efforts to get me. I believe FC99 is looking at it. Shame I don't get the kill though. It's becoming more fun to make him crash than it is to shoot him down.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by jameson

I'm currently having an occassional QMB with a p40 (Ace) which flies with psychopathic tendencies. Strangely though he will black out and crash after making too many 8g turns in his efforts to get me. I believe FC99 is looking at it. Shame I don't get the kill though. It's becoming more fun to make him crash than it is to shoot him down.

Arguably, that's a feature rather than a bug. After all, even an ace pilot can mess up and crash into the ground. For example, a low level stall in a dogfight killed Thomas McGuire - the second highest scoring American ace of WW2.

Just assume that your P-40 pilot has a bad case of overconfidence and testosterone poisoning.

[majorfailure]

Originally Posted by jameson

I'm currently having an occassional QMB with a p40 (Ace) which flies with psychopathic tendencies. Strangely though he will black out and crash after making too many 8g turns in his efforts to get me. I believe FC99 is looking at it. Shame I don't get the kill though. It's becoming more fun to make him crash than it is to shoot him down.

I hope this does NOT get fixed. May just be my impression - but the 4.11 AI seems to do stupid things at least once in a while - and thats good!

And there seems to be some "suicidal" AI. Never back down - even if that means crashing into their prey. And why evade in a head-on? -Let the other guy do that.

[jameson]

Please explain how this AI gets to be an ace if he's a psycho and crashes without fail? Something not quite right there, I'd have thought. Wouldn't an ace be more circumspect, lead you around and make you commit a fatal error then finish you off or set out to maximise an advantage before commiting to an attack? Ever read about an ace who goes head to head?

[JtD]

I ended my last good kill streak blacking out and crashing. I was at 250+, so I guess it qualifies as ace. If that happens to human players, why not AI?

US pilot Thomas McGuire snap stalled his aircraft and crashed to death. He was the 2nd highest scoring US ace. If that happened to real pilots, why not AI?

[majorfailure]

Originally Posted by jameson

Please explain how this AI gets to be an ace if he's a psycho and crashes without fail? Something not quite right there, I'd have thought.

So he does just fly into the ground for no further reason? From your previous statement it sounded like he misjudges the distance required for his maneuvers and crashes -running out of airspace.

Originally Posted by jameson

Wouldn't an ace be more circumspect, lead you around and make you commit a fatal error then finish you off or set out to maximise an advantage before commiting to an attack?

In general yes. There were aces that were good at setting up their encounters, never attacking without a clear plan in mind, always attacking only in favourable position. Knowing their/the enemys planes strenghts and weaknesses.
And there were others, that got into almost any fight they could pick, most of the times surprising the enemy, were good dogfighters and good marksmen - and thus sucessful. But they lacked tactical discipline. From one of those I would expect to sometimes want too much in a fight and then maybe even misjudge the distance to the ground.

For example take Hans-Joachim Marseille, he was a brilliant fighter pilot and superb marksman, but he destroyed more than one plane upon landing.

Or take Josef Frantisek, had next to zero discipline, but racked up 17 kills in a few weeks, many of them against foes flying "superior" planes - and he died in a crash for that no technical explanation was found - supposedly he was over-exhausted.

Originally Posted by jameson

Ever read about an ace who goes head to head?

Why not? If he is an agressive, confident personality (overly) sure of himself and his abilities, then yes. Tommy McGuire supposedly did so.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by majorfailure

In general yes. There were aces that were good at setting up their encounters, never attacking without a clear plan in mind, always attacking only in favourable position. Knowing their/the enemys planes strenghts and weaknesses.
And there were others, that got into almost any fight they could pick, most of the times surprising the enemy, were good dogfighters and good marksmen - and thus sucessful. But they lacked tactical discipline. From one of those I would expect to sometimes want too much in a fight and then maybe even misjudge the distance to the ground.

The WW1 equivalents would be Manfred von Richtofen and Werner Voss.

It would be interesting if the IL2 AI could model these different types of aces - the "tacticians" and the "dogfighters." The former were generally excellent leaders who trained other pilots to be aces. The latter were generally loners who eventually made one mistake too many.

[shelby]

Originally Posted by IceFire

Is that what you mean? Too much rolling? It's not loosing control... it's just rolling to avoid negative G and doing it a lot. A real pilot would probably be sick

yes but the same thing happens with the other planes controlled by AI.
Anyway it must be fixed