Friday October 12 - Release Candidate 2

[klem]

Originally Posted by vranac

I don't know is it historical but DeWilde could have flash on impact.

That is precisely what the DeWilde was introduced for, it produced flashes on impact to confirm hits.

[chris455]

Originally Posted by klem

That is precisely what the DeWilde was introduced for, it produced flashes on impact to confirm hits.

I disagree.
Read Steven Bungay's Most Dangerous Enemy. In it he gives a brief history of the "De Wilde" round and it's purpose. It was an improved incendiary which was intended to start fires in an enemy aircraft's structure. Whether it "flashed" or not, it's primary purpose was as an incendiary, not an "observer" round.

[Catseye]

Originally Posted by chris455

I disagree.
Read Steven Bungay's Most Dangerous Enemy. In it he gives a brief history of the "De Wilde" round and it's purpose. It was an improved incendiary which was intended to start fires in an enemy aircraft's structure. Whether it "flashed" or not, it's primary purpose was as an incendiary, not an "observer" round.

You are correct - I miss-spoke. It was designed as an incendiary to start fires. However, it became a valuable asset to the pilots due to the flash on impact. The statement I made was to argue against the OP about no .303 rounds flashing.

From:
THE BATTLE OF BRITAIN: ARMAMENT OF THE COMPETING FIGHTERS
Based on information from 'Flying Guns: World War 2'
© Anthony G Williams 2004

. . . . . . . The B. Mk VI 'De Wilde' incendiary (named after the original Belgian inventor but in fact completely redesigned by Major Dixon), which contained 0.5 grams of SR 365 (a composition including barium nitrate which ignited on impact with the target) was twice as effective as these (.303" B. Mk IV incendiary tracer), scoring one in five.

The 'De Wilde' bullets were first issued in June 1940 and tested operationally in the air battles over Dunkirk. Their improved effectiveness, coupled with the fact that the flash on impact indicated that the shooting was on target, was much appreciated by the fighter pilots. It was at first in short supply, and the initial RAF fighter loading was three guns loaded with ball, two with AP, two with Mk IV incendiary tracer and one with Mk VI incendiary.

[chris455]

Originally Posted by Catseye

You are correct - I miss-spoke. It was designed as an incendiary to start fires. However, it became a valuable asset to the pilots due to the flash on impact. The statement I made was to argue against the OP about no .303 rounds flashing.

From:
THE BATTLE OF BRITAIN: ARMAMENT OF THE COMPETING FIGHTERS
Based on information from 'Flying Guns: World War 2'
© Anthony G Williams 2004

. . . . . . . The B. Mk VI 'De Wilde' incendiary (named after the original Belgian inventor but in fact completely redesigned by Major Dixon), which contained 0.5 grams of SR 365 (a composition including barium nitrate which ignited on impact with the target) was twice as effective as these (.303" B. Mk IV incendiary tracer), scoring one in five.

The 'De Wilde' bullets were first issued in June 1940 and tested operationally in the air battles over Dunkirk. Their improved effectiveness, coupled with the fact that the flash on impact indicated that the shooting was on target, was much appreciated by the fighter pilots. It was at first in short supply, and the initial RAF fighter loading was three guns loaded with ball, two with AP, two with Mk IV incendiary tracer and one with Mk VI incendiary.

Clarification accepted, good research.

[klem]

Originally Posted by chris455

I disagree.
Read Steven Bungay's Most Dangerous Enemy. In it he gives a brief history of the "De Wilde" round and it's purpose. It was an improved incendiary which was intended to start fires in an enemy aircraft's structure. Whether it "flashed" or not, it's primary purpose was as an incendiary, not an "observer" round.

OK, 'precisely what is was introduced for' was a bit narrow but my post was meant to confirm that some 303's did flash on impact.

As far as the pilot was concerned it was effectively dual purpose, causing a flash on impact as well as being incendiary. The initial activation happened on impact. Catsey's reference is the most often quoted and here's a report from a pilot using it in the far east:
http://www.aircrew-saltire.org/lib225.htm
"The golden flashes I had seen on the Japanese aircraft were undoubtedly my de Wilde ammunition exploding and I was sure that very many rounds had hit it. This de Wilde ammunition exploded on contact and an incendiary core remained so that it was highly lethal to aircraft."

And of course there are other references as in Al Deere's "Nine lives"

Here's a brief description and cutaway:
http://cartridgecollectors.org/cmo/cmo07feb.htm

[SlipBall]

Originally Posted by klem

OK, 'precisely what is was introduced for' was a bit narrow but my post was meant to confirm that some 303's did flash on impact.

As far as the pilot was concerned it was effectively dual purpose, causing a flash on impact as well as being incendiary. The initial activation happened on impact. Catsey's reference is the most often quoted and here's a report from a pilot using it in the far east:
http://www.aircrew-saltire.org/lib225.htm
"The golden flashes I had seen on the Japanese aircraft were undoubtedly my de Wilde ammunition exploding and I was sure that very many rounds had hit it. This de Wilde ammunition exploded on contact and an incendiary core remained so that it was highly lethal to aircraft."

And of course there are other references as in Al Deere's "Nine lives"

Here's a brief description and cutaway:
http://cartridgecollectors.org/cmo/cmo07feb.htm

I think the round was named "observer"...been flying blue lately so I could be wrong.