Spit/109 sea level speed comparisons in 1.08 beta patch

[camber]

Originally Posted by 5./JG27.Farber

Actually it can't just be used willy nilly. Activating it at the top of a "zoom" climb when pitch is at 12:00 and your hanging on the prop will blow the engine. I'd also like to add pressing wep at SL when already going all out throttle, pitch and speed at 460 (rarley 480) doesnt add any more speed. The wep seems to add more power at lower sppeds to me.


The graphs having different scales makes it very hard to compare, any chance of putting it all on one graph? - Or at least the same scaled graph?

FT = Full Throttle? I think nearly all the speed tests on the 109 were done at 1.3 or 1.35 Ata were they not? Not full throttle...

Hi Farber,

Sounds like I may be overstating the ease and safety of 1.45ata use in the 109. In my speed tests I tried restarting it a few times at SL and didn't see engine problems but didn't try many variations. I got 450kmh without and 470 kmh with it on, is that consistent with you?. The 1.45ata in combat makes it harder to work out how best to configure the 109 in CoD, if you gave the 109 500kmh at around 1.3ata and combat access to 1.45ata, you have a VERY fast bird indeed in CoD considering historical information.

For the 109 tests I left auto prop pitch on and had the throttle fully open, with the boost regulation giving 1.35ata or 1.45ata. FT is full throttle as you surmise.

I scaled the plots seperately because I wanted to talk about relative speeds in real life and game. Both plots have a 120kmh range on the y axis, the CoD one starts 50kmh lower because all speeds in CoD are roughly 50kmh low. These tests are really a bit basic..only sea level max speeds done singly offline.

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by camber

Sounds like I may be overstating the ease and safety of 1.45ata use in the 109.

I guess that is because this is a fairly new feature in recent beta patches (1.07 onwards afik). It used to be just as you described it...

I haven't got enough hours in 109 in 1.08 to comment on that to be honest. I managed to damage the engine when I forgot to open the water rad, but I never damaged it by using the WEP as long as my rpm weren't too high.

[Ze-Jamz]

Originally Posted by Robo.

I guess that is because this is a fairly new feature in recent beta patches (1.07 onwards afik). It used to be just as you described it...

I haven't got enough hours in 109 in 1.08 to comment on that to be honest. I managed to damage the engine when I forgot to open the water rad, but I never damaged it by using the WEP as long as my rpm weren't too high.

The effect you get from execissve use at certain instances of Boost is not the same as cooking your engine throuh heat, I'm not sure what damage is modeled in game but you suffer with lack of power and can't seem to get your rpm as high as normal..can't remember the exact figure as I try not to do it often

[5./JG27.Farber]

Originally Posted by camber

Hi Farber,

Sounds like I may be overstating the ease and safety of 1.45ata use in the 109. In my speed tests I tried restarting it a few times at SL and didn't see engine problems but didn't try many variations. I got 450kmh without and 470 kmh with it on, is that consistent with you?. The 1.45ata in combat makes it harder to work out how best to configure the 109 in CoD, if you gave the 109 500kmh at around 1.3ata and combat access to 1.45ata, you have a VERY fast bird indeed in CoD considering historical information.

For the 109 tests I left auto prop pitch on and had the throttle fully open, with the boost regulation giving 1.35ata or 1.45ata. FT is full throttle as you surmise.

I scaled the plots seperately because I wanted to talk about relative speeds in real life and game. Both plots have a 120kmh range on the y axis, the CoD one starts 50kmh lower because all speeds in CoD are roughly 50kmh low. These tests are really a bit basic..only sea level max speeds done singly offline.

Thank you for you intelligent and polite reply. Hopefully it can be an example for this thread so it doesnt get locked.

My squad mates and I have been discussing the difference between the E4 auto pitch and the E1 and E3 manual pitch which is quite different. I would also go as far to say when your using autopitch your almost using the AI FM in some respects. The exact difference is hard to describe and establish exactly... The auto pitch also runs at a lower RPM than I would manually, although it gets more acceleration, better fuel economy and is overall superior except when you rapidly climb and dive continiously and it cannot keep up with you. 5./JG27Gruber could explain more on this than I think, I will see if he wants to contribute.

I can achieve 460kmh sea level with out any wep during the acceleration... Occasionally if I have my aircraft trimmed perfectly and the planets align I can get a steady 480 kmh... At 5km altitude its more like 420kmh.

Klem started a thread about speed and the 109 was discussed also. I made some quick tracks [Strike]which I will attempt to attach here.[/Strike] (they are messed up, I will fraps it and upload to youtube...) Close to sea level tests and 5km level flight speed tests 1.3 Ata and 2350 U/pm if I recall. I think these runs were made in 1.07. As far as I am aware the only difference to the 109 FM is the rad drag... - Which is neglible to a degree.

-Ultimatley, I am only Human. I'm proberbly not the best at flying straight and level and maybe I am even doing it wrong? I will let others be the judge of it.


EDIT1: WOW was I wrong?! 100% Fuel gave some interesting results but I need to test 50% also for comparison. There have been changes to Bf109 FM in 1.08.

[41Sqn_Banks]

Interesting .... http://www.spitfireperformance.com/n3171-cooling.jpg

From: http://www.spitfireperformance.com/n3171.html

[TomcatViP]

I agree there is some drag effect with the rads.

However, do you realize guys that there was no 100oct fuel during BoB ?

Wonder what you are looking after here?!!

Regarding the speed achieved by the tester, isn't it the same one that wasn't able to achieve 270 in a hurri ? I mean teh kind of guy taking off with a cold engine, flying hood open, at 400kph cruise speed and complaining about overheating in combat ?

I think it says it all...

I am sory but when I read "real life MkI 100oct" it really push me out of my brain.

[camber]

Originally Posted by TomcatViP

Regarding the speed achieved by the tester, isn't it the same one that wasn't able to achieve 270 in a hurri ? I mean teh kind of guy taking off with a cold engine, flying hood open, at 400kph cruise speed and complaining about overheating in combat ?

I think it says it all...

I am sory but when I read "real life MkI 100oct" it really push me out of my brain.

Hi Tomcat

Er, not sure if it is an English issue, but that reads like a hilarious insult so I will reply as such.

Maybe I (it) WAS the kind of tester that wasn't able to achieve 270 (mph?) in a Hurri while complaining. But what would you say if it got back to the airfield, abducted Spitgirl from the officer's mess, and took her to the nightspots of Picadilly in an open top Lagonda?

Looking back the only flight test of a Hurri I remember was 240-245mph on the deck in the first beta patch with FM revision (slowing Hurris down). I think it was a fair bit faster in the previous retail patch 1.05.

Will not comment on the fuel with high round number
in case the padlock gods are roused from fitful slumber.

Cheers M8

[NZtyphoon]

Originally Posted by camber

Will not comment on the fuel with high round number
in case the padlock gods are roused from fitful slumber.

Cheers M8

I see ATAG_Dutch has been doing some tests, with interesting results, http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthr...624#post457624

[5./JG27.Farber]

I have done the tests using the values in the table for the DB 601 A and B manual. I believe the new compressor is modeled, so in the box "Flying Altitude" I used the left hand column, as there is significant drop off in Ata at 4.5 to 5km rather than 4 to 4.5km... I also performed the test on a multiplayer server in case FM's are different in single player.


Using ATAG_Keller's IAS TAS converter the results are:

Test 1 Sea level 1.3Ata 2400U/pm IAS 440 TAS 440 or 273 mph
Test 2 Sea level 1.23Ata 2300U/pm IAS 430 TAS 430 or 267 mph
Test 3 Sea level 1.15Ata 2200U/pm IAS 420 TAS 420 or 261 mph

Test 4 4500metres 1.3Ata 2400U/pm IAS 400 TAS 518 or 322 mph
Test 5 5000metres 1.23Ata 2400U/pm IAS 390 TAS 518 or 322 mph
Test 6 4900metres 1.15Ata 2200U/pm IAS 370 TAS 489 or 304 mph

http://youtu.be/O4jHSMyYdkg <---- Video of tests.

Now we need to dig out the real life tests and compare.


The effect of WEP also seems to have changed. I tried making it break the engine in the usual ways but could not manage it... It also seems to have effect at all altitudes now.

[Glider]

Originally Posted by TomcatViP

However, do you realize guys that there was no 100oct fuel during BoB ?

Priceless