Any plans to finally get a re-crypting?

[MicroWave]

As much as I love storytelling, I think I should skip the analogies and use direct approach.
Your request to get the source code of DT.dll from Daidalos Team (or any other part of the code, for that matter) is denied.
Reasons are explained above by mkubani.

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

Hahaha! Whats wrong with nudists?

To pick up your metapher.
The mentioned people never have payed for any access granted - they swelled in, as one little boy unauthorized sneaked in and got hold of the key of the entrance door and shared this key to everyone else. Some people knew, that it was against the law to break into a house and get the key. Nethertheless they ignored this fact and used their own key to go in to settle down, because they always liked to live in such a house, but never had enough skill to build one themself. (later people just didn't know of what the very first boy did and just found the house open to them). Not only did they settle down, no, they changed the rooms to their likings, using weird or nice stuff to fill it, again without asking. But there were still parts in the house, they could not reach.

The owners, as you said, decided to live in the house as before, renewing and repairing it, ignoring the strange, impatiently, anyway mostly nice people. They couldn't just lock the people out again, as most of them just really didn't know, what they were in fact doing wrong - and the owners weren't moneybegging lawers anyway.

Occationally, the owners had to paint a room, which was used by the people. And the people disliked it of course, because it got uncomfortable for them. But they just got around that problem shortly after anyway, were able to paint their room again and all was well. Also the people complained, that the owners didn't want to let them paint all of the house, including the non accessable rooms. The owners tried to explain, that he thought, not all of their paint was a good match for the house and that these were the very private rooms. The people didn't really understand, but couldn't help it.

One day the owners bought a dog (the people had already a few dogs in the house and liked them, but the owners didn't like them as they were wild mixes). They build a new hut for it, right beside their house, including a small door and a lock, so he was save. It was made that way, because it was the best way not to force such a dog to live in the house.

The people recognised, that their key didn't seem to fit well into the lock of the hut and one of them started arguing, what could be inside and demanded an open hut. Why? And what would he want to do with the dog anyway? Petting?
Anyway, the other people didn't care much for long, as they still could live well in the house and do what they wanted to do in their rooms.

End of the story.

[Storebror]

Originally Posted by EJGr.Ost_Caspar

The mentioned people never have payed for any access granted - they swelled in

You didn't get a single word of the story, sorry.

Originally Posted by MicroWave

Your request to get the source code of DT.dll from Daidalos Team (or any other part of the code, for that matter) is denied.
Reasons are explained above by mkubani.

While the reasons aren't, the statement is clear and understood.

Thanks and best regards - Mike

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

You neigher.

@Admins: Thread could be locked now.

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by Storebror

While the reasons aren't, the statement is clear and understood.

Hi Mike,

I would say the reasons are also very clear - the source code is not to be shared with any 3rd party as per legal agreements between DT and 1c.

The DLL has been used to introduce new features like 6DoF and new AI routines and one should not seek any further motives beyond it's existence. You've been told this already and although you don't seem to be convinced, there is nothing much that can be said about that. Following your allegory, I would say that this is not ew door installed on the house, it's rather a new chimney, and the inhabitants (invited or not, naked or not) can use it if they wish. The key still fits the front door.

Regards
Rob

[Storebror]

The bottom line indeed seems to be reached now that we all got it clear, plain and simple that the modding community will not get the required sources in order to further modify the functionalities which now have been shifted into this particular library.

As per legal restrictions, yes, I get that TD has no permission to distribute any sources where 1C is involved. That's sad but it wasn't of any concern as java sources, as long as they ain't obfuscated, can easily be decompiled back into readable and editable format, in contrast to c/c++ sources as we have them in this library.
Now that this library has not been written by 1C but solely by TD (confirm?) and it does not call any particular code back into IL-2 but vice versa, IL-2 just makes use of functions exported by this library, no legal rights of 1C are concerned, it's as much as the distribution of my so called "IL-2 selector" sources are concerned by 1C legal properties.

That's where I say the reasons have not been given, we just got some official version of it. Nevertheless I got the message and I'm confident anyone else got it, too.

Thanks and best regards - Mike

[FC99]

Originally Posted by Storebror

While the reasons aren't, the statement is clear and understood.

Reasons:
1. We could chose between packing parts of new code into separate dll or to repack exe and some of the old dll files. We thought than new dll is cleaner solution. In fact, separate dll makes modding easier so this is certainly not decision that is directed against modders.

2. We can't share source code. We would breach Section 2.2, paragraph (d) of the contract between 1C and DT if we do so. BTW releasing the patches in format that we know is compromised is stretching out the contract already so, again, we are not making decision against modders, just the opposite.

3. None of the old code is packed into DT.dll, only some parts of the code written for 4.11 are in DT.dll (~7% of the new code is in the DT.dll , 93 % of the ne code is in the same old Java classes). We have deleted redundant code from the game but I'm sure that , you, as an excellent coder, understand the reasons for that. Of course, that doesn't mean that you can't use old code if you want or you think that it is better than the code in DT.dll.

I would expect that somebody with your skill level would not have a slightest problem to replace DT.dll functions with different ones, for better or the worse.

4. If you don't like what is inside DT.dll than just replace it with your code, that's what I did with AI. You don't need a source code for that, after all what are you going to do with the code you consider to be bad? Write your own code and use it in the game, can't be easier than that.

OTOH if new code is good that why would you want to change it and if you don't want to change it than you certainly don't need source code.

5. If you think that something is wrong in the game you can report it here on the forum or to daidalos.team@gmail.com . Even better, you can even make your own,better, code and submit it for inclusion into the game. If it is accepted we will gladly thank you and include you into game credits. Again, hardly a thing against the modders.

6. There is nothing in the DT.dll that you can't find on the web, if you have read a single book about AI you will have an idea about AI programming techniques. We didn't invented anything new, we are just applying well known things.

7. Even if I give you the source code for AI it wouldn't mean much if you don't know the background for it, if you don't have hundreds of Excel charts and tables and if you don't have dozen of standalone applications used for AI development.

8. Write your own code.

All the best and have a nice day,

Josip

[MicroWave]

Originally Posted by Storebror

The bottom line indeed seems to be reached now that we all got it clear, plain and simple that the modding community will not get the required sources in order to further modify the functionalities which now have been shifted into this particular library.

Plain and simple, the modding community does NOT require sources in order to modify the game or those particular features. What you're saying is FALSE. Just to clarify for some readers who might be confused by this issue: supplying compiled code (Java or C/C++) with the patch is NOT re-encrypting.

Originally Posted by Storebror

As per legal restrictions, yes, I get that TD has no permission to distribute any sources where 1C is involved. That's sad but it wasn't of any concern as java sources, as long as they ain't obfuscated, can easily be decompiled back into readable and editable format, in contrast to c/c++ sources as we have them in this library.

So it's not enough that owners of intellectual right and copyright are turning a blind eye on modding of parts of the Software which were never meant to be modified? Now modding has to be made easy? You've got to be kidding me. There are loads of games that were successfully modded which had zero (0) lines of code written in Java and without access to the source code.
Do "requirements" of modding community take precedence over what and how we develop our content? What about customers who do not wish to use mods for one reason or another? There was exactly zero (0) effort from DT side to prevent modding in this patch.
What you are asking for is impossible. Not only we are not obliged to grant your request, we are legally bound not to do so.
For completeness sake, we are aware, and I'm sure large portion of modding community is also aware, of the fact that when we introduce changes in the code (be it Java or C/C++ or whatever), certain mods will not work out of the box on top of the latest patch. There is almost nothing we can do about that.
Please note that this does not brake functionality of the mods on top of the previous patch.
And for the record, I and other DT members helped, in this very forum, on several occasions users who had "My QMB got stuck when I hit fly in 4.11" problem. No questions asked.

Originally Posted by Storebror

Now that this library has not been written by 1C but solely by TD (confirm?) and it does not call any particular code back into IL-2 but vice versa, IL-2 just makes use of functions exported by this library, no legal rights of 1C are concerned, it's as much as the distribution of my so called "IL-2 selector" sources are concerned by 1C legal properties.

Check the loading screen and pay attention to the logos on the bottom left. I'm pretty sure none of the entities concerned have waived or transferred their rights regarding the Software in question.

Originally Posted by Storebror

That's where I say the reasons have not been given, we just got some official version of it.
Nevertheless I got the message and I'm confident anyone else got it, too.

Accusing us of lying is just rude, man. I do not want to go there.

Best regards,
MicroWave

[Storebror]

Now that all statements have been given and things have been clarified in depth, did we forget anything?

Best regards - Mike

[Storebror]

Fine, hope you feel better now. Anything else?

Best regards - Mike