Any plans to finally get a re-crypting?

[Storebror]

Originally Posted by EJGr.Ost_Caspar

The DLL is not encrypted in any way. People in the know will easily access it, if they want to.

I hope you ain't trying to fool people. Getting back c++ code from a gcc compiled DLL is literally impossible. What you get back from disassemblers is plain useless. You can "access" that file as much as you can read tea leaves.
For the time being, the functions inside DT.dll are out of reach for modders, they can't modify what's inside. That's exactly the same result like if the same functions would reside encrypted (read: obfuscated) in java code.
In previous versions of IL-2, all the functionality which has now been sealed in that DLL has been available for modifications to modders, now it isn't anymore.
It's a valid question to ask what the intention of this step has been and what it will lead to for future versions. If it ain't about locking out modders, opening the sources would be the logical step which would take about a minute of the precious time of a TD team member.

Originally Posted by Nuke

we created a simple engine hack (with tools found online), which we successfully demonstrated on War Clouds (informed the admin team). The server I believe was running with CRT=1 at the time though.

War Clouds is a crt=0 server and AFAIK has ever been.

Originally Posted by swiss

skiesoffire

crt=0 again. No news that there are individuals who just can't hold back cheating on such kind of servers.

Best regards - Mike

[mkubani]

It's a valid question to ask what the intention of this step has been and what it will lead to for future versions. If it ain't about locking out modders, opening the sources would be the logical step which would take about a minute of the precious time of a TD team member.

Storebror, I will repeat myself: the DLL file is there for our technical implementation of AI and 6DoF. This is the only valid answer to you question. And for opening the sources, you well know our legal limitations. Thank you for accepting and respecting this.

BTW, if you constructive feedback regarding these two features (6DoF and AI), there are debugging threads on this forum - please post your suggestions.

[Storebror]

Originally Posted by mkubani

the DLL file is there for our technical implementation of AI and 6DoF. This is the only valid answer to you question. And for opening the sources, you well know our legal limitations.

I'm repeating myself from elsewhere as well:
This answer is for someone who can't distinguish between donkeys and horses.

Let me raise a comparison and please let me take the liberty to invite you to consider this open minded, so maybe you get a clue of what this step of TD means to the modding community.
There's a house.
The house is your's.
In your house there lives a community of people, some of them call themselves "modders", other's don't carry any particular names but just live in there.
None of those people pays for living in there, they all payed for having access granted once, but now they're living in your house for free.
You like that house, you like the community living in there and you constantly try to repair and renew it. You're a little concerned about the community shrinking considerable lately, but you believe in being able to make the house comfortable enough to keep them in there.

Now once a day you consider to replace the entrance door of your house. Nothing special in itself, but the new door only allows you to enter the house when being naked.

Some of the people living in your house just don't care, others do, and particularly the "modders" ask you about why you replaced the door and whether you could grant them clothed access to the house as well.
Now your answer is "that's our door, we did it like that intentionally, like it or don't.".

It's your house, you're perfectly entitled to do with it whatever you want.
Just as a matter of fact, when you force your guests to enter naked, only nudists will remain as guests in the end and for nudists there's another much nicer house being built around the corner which has just been finished and will be polished to perfection soon.

Got it?

Best regards - Mike

[MicroWave]

As much as I love storytelling, I think I should skip the analogies and use direct approach.
Your request to get the source code of DT.dll from Daidalos Team (or any other part of the code, for that matter) is denied.
Reasons are explained above by mkubani.

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

Hahaha! Whats wrong with nudists?

To pick up your metapher.
The mentioned people never have payed for any access granted - they swelled in, as one little boy unauthorized sneaked in and got hold of the key of the entrance door and shared this key to everyone else. Some people knew, that it was against the law to break into a house and get the key. Nethertheless they ignored this fact and used their own key to go in to settle down, because they always liked to live in such a house, but never had enough skill to build one themself. (later people just didn't know of what the very first boy did and just found the house open to them). Not only did they settle down, no, they changed the rooms to their likings, using weird or nice stuff to fill it, again without asking. But there were still parts in the house, they could not reach.

The owners, as you said, decided to live in the house as before, renewing and repairing it, ignoring the strange, impatiently, anyway mostly nice people. They couldn't just lock the people out again, as most of them just really didn't know, what they were in fact doing wrong - and the owners weren't moneybegging lawers anyway.

Occationally, the owners had to paint a room, which was used by the people. And the people disliked it of course, because it got uncomfortable for them. But they just got around that problem shortly after anyway, were able to paint their room again and all was well. Also the people complained, that the owners didn't want to let them paint all of the house, including the non accessable rooms. The owners tried to explain, that he thought, not all of their paint was a good match for the house and that these were the very private rooms. The people didn't really understand, but couldn't help it.

One day the owners bought a dog (the people had already a few dogs in the house and liked them, but the owners didn't like them as they were wild mixes). They build a new hut for it, right beside their house, including a small door and a lock, so he was save. It was made that way, because it was the best way not to force such a dog to live in the house.

The people recognised, that their key didn't seem to fit well into the lock of the hut and one of them started arguing, what could be inside and demanded an open hut. Why? And what would he want to do with the dog anyway? Petting?
Anyway, the other people didn't care much for long, as they still could live well in the house and do what they wanted to do in their rooms.

End of the story.

[Storebror]

Originally Posted by EJGr.Ost_Caspar

The mentioned people never have payed for any access granted - they swelled in

You didn't get a single word of the story, sorry.

Originally Posted by MicroWave

Your request to get the source code of DT.dll from Daidalos Team (or any other part of the code, for that matter) is denied.
Reasons are explained above by mkubani.

While the reasons aren't, the statement is clear and understood.

Thanks and best regards - Mike

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

You neigher.

@Admins: Thread could be locked now.

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by Storebror

While the reasons aren't, the statement is clear and understood.

Hi Mike,

I would say the reasons are also very clear - the source code is not to be shared with any 3rd party as per legal agreements between DT and 1c.

The DLL has been used to introduce new features like 6DoF and new AI routines and one should not seek any further motives beyond it's existence. You've been told this already and although you don't seem to be convinced, there is nothing much that can be said about that. Following your allegory, I would say that this is not ew door installed on the house, it's rather a new chimney, and the inhabitants (invited or not, naked or not) can use it if they wish. The key still fits the front door.

Regards
Rob

[Storebror]

The bottom line indeed seems to be reached now that we all got it clear, plain and simple that the modding community will not get the required sources in order to further modify the functionalities which now have been shifted into this particular library.

As per legal restrictions, yes, I get that TD has no permission to distribute any sources where 1C is involved. That's sad but it wasn't of any concern as java sources, as long as they ain't obfuscated, can easily be decompiled back into readable and editable format, in contrast to c/c++ sources as we have them in this library.
Now that this library has not been written by 1C but solely by TD (confirm?) and it does not call any particular code back into IL-2 but vice versa, IL-2 just makes use of functions exported by this library, no legal rights of 1C are concerned, it's as much as the distribution of my so called "IL-2 selector" sources are concerned by 1C legal properties.

That's where I say the reasons have not been given, we just got some official version of it. Nevertheless I got the message and I'm confident anyone else got it, too.

Thanks and best regards - Mike

[FC99]

Originally Posted by Storebror

While the reasons aren't, the statement is clear and understood.

Reasons:
1. We could chose between packing parts of new code into separate dll or to repack exe and some of the old dll files. We thought than new dll is cleaner solution. In fact, separate dll makes modding easier so this is certainly not decision that is directed against modders.

2. We can't share source code. We would breach Section 2.2, paragraph (d) of the contract between 1C and DT if we do so. BTW releasing the patches in format that we know is compromised is stretching out the contract already so, again, we are not making decision against modders, just the opposite.

3. None of the old code is packed into DT.dll, only some parts of the code written for 4.11 are in DT.dll (~7% of the new code is in the DT.dll , 93 % of the ne code is in the same old Java classes). We have deleted redundant code from the game but I'm sure that , you, as an excellent coder, understand the reasons for that. Of course, that doesn't mean that you can't use old code if you want or you think that it is better than the code in DT.dll.

I would expect that somebody with your skill level would not have a slightest problem to replace DT.dll functions with different ones, for better or the worse.

4. If you don't like what is inside DT.dll than just replace it with your code, that's what I did with AI. You don't need a source code for that, after all what are you going to do with the code you consider to be bad? Write your own code and use it in the game, can't be easier than that.

OTOH if new code is good that why would you want to change it and if you don't want to change it than you certainly don't need source code.

5. If you think that something is wrong in the game you can report it here on the forum or to daidalos.team@gmail.com . Even better, you can even make your own,better, code and submit it for inclusion into the game. If it is accepted we will gladly thank you and include you into game credits. Again, hardly a thing against the modders.

6. There is nothing in the DT.dll that you can't find on the web, if you have read a single book about AI you will have an idea about AI programming techniques. We didn't invented anything new, we are just applying well known things.

7. Even if I give you the source code for AI it wouldn't mean much if you don't know the background for it, if you don't have hundreds of Excel charts and tables and if you don't have dozen of standalone applications used for AI development.

8. Write your own code.

All the best and have a nice day,

Josip