What a tracer should look like (before spazzing just look).

[yellonet]

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider

that, with respect, is just plain wrong... the MKI Eyeball has no shutter and sees in fluid capture.

Yes. That's why I said equivalent of shutterspeed...

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider

you run a CRT monitor refreshrate at (min) 60 Hz and FPS (similar to a shutter but in reverse, to avoid getting eyestrain/ headache from the flickering screen

And 60 Hz is used as that is the limit of human "shutterspeed", 1/60 s.

[yellonet]

The thing is that under the right circumstances the light streak will bend. And as with all tracer streaks it's not really happening but is only an illusion that occurs in the eye of the beholder so to speak.

No one is talking about bullet trajectory - the trajectory could be straight as a laser, the discussed effect would still occur.

And unless you have experience flying an aircraft and firing loads of tracers in sharp turns any amount of firing tracers from fixed positions will not get you to observe the phenomenon, so that experience is for this discussion completely inconsequential.

I for one would really like to see the effect in the game as it would probably look really good from external views.

[Wolf_Rider]

There is no "equivalent" to shutterspeed or anything like your train of thought there, yellonet, for the human eye. The human eye does not have a shutter.
All that lovely flowing milk, etc, you see in tv adverts, is usually shot at up around 300 ~ 500 frames/ second and sync'd.
Light doesn't bend, except supposedly under extreme magnetic influence... you're confusing afterimage in relation to the eye and the round's velocity... as for the human eye can following the round, I have seen Samurai slice an oncoming bullet in half with a katana but that is in an exceptional circumstance after dedicated training.

the tracer streak doesn't bend, twist, distort or anything, yellonet... the stream does, but not the individual streaks

[yellonet]

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider

There is no "equivalent" to shutterspeed or anything like your train of thought there, yellonet, for the human eye. The human eye does not have a shutter.
All that lovely flowing milk, etc, you see in tv adverts, is usually shot at up around 300 ~ 500 frames/ second and sync'd.
Light doesn't bend, except supposedly under extreme magnetic influence... you're confusing afterimage in relation to the eye and the round's velocity... as for the human eye can following the round, I have seen Samurai slice an oncoming bullet in half with a katana but that is in an exceptional circumstance after dedicated training.

Ugh, I don't know why I have to say this as I thought it was quite evident that I just used the "shutter speed" as a metaphor to explain how quick changes the eye/brain can register.
Of course the eye has no shutter.
But regarding this discussion, watching a tracer filmed with a shutterspeed of 1/60 should look similar to what one would see in person.

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider

the tracer streak doesn't bend, twist, distort or anything, yellonet... the stream does, but not the individual streaks

It does bend. How would the "stream" bend but not the individual streaks?
That could only happen if the streaks where physical rigid objects sticking out of the bullet. Which the streaks are not.

[Wolf_Rider]

Originally Posted by yellonet

Yes. That's why I said equivalent of shutterspeed...

And 60 Hz is used as that is the limit of human "shutterspeed", 1/60 s.

how do you see that the "And 60 Hz is used as that is the limit of human "shutterspeed", 1/60 s."? because the human eye, does not have a shutter speed (fixed or variable) - it doesn't have a shutter, it doesn't have an FPS either (where it has to draw images to the brain at 60Hz)




winny...
recognise that bullet stream is bending not the tracers @ 0:55 (in the vid) identical to COD

[winny]

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider

how do you see that the "And 60 Hz is used as that is the limit of human "shutterspeed", 1/60 s."? because the human eye, does not have a shutter speed (fixed or variable) - it doesn't have a shutter, it doesn't have an FPS either (where it has to draw images to the brain at 60Hz)




winny...
recognise that bullet stream is bending not the tracers @ 0:55 (in the vid) identical to COD

I'll have a look..
But I have already taken frames from the same video and drawn straight lines through the tracer and the vast majority are, when the camera is moving, very slightly curved, try it. Some are very curved btw.

I didn't just wake up one morning and think that I wanted to upset the banana forum, I did some research first.

I really don't want to continue repeating myself either, I imagine everyone is sick of me already! I am!

(I'm off to look for a Raaaid thread.. much more fun)

[Wolf_Rider]

Originally Posted by yellonet

I didn't think it needed explanation as it is quite obvious, except for you, that I did not say that the the eye has no shutter, camera functions were just used as an analogy.
If I had meant that the eye had a shutter I would have said "the eye has a shutter".
But talk all you want the eye still has the limitations as I've said before.

Originally Posted by yellonet

Yes. That's why I said equivalent of shutterspeed...


And 60 Hz is used as that is the limit of human "shutterspeed", 1/60 s.

Hmmmm....

Originally Posted by yellonet

So, what's your point here? Are you saying that there's a difference between different light sources when it comes the the discussed effect?

the velocity difference and length of burn time between a rounds tracer and a sparkler.



People need to keep in mind that a movie camera takes a "snapshot" every 1/25 of a second or so (depending on camera), so, if that camera is "shaking" (even minimally) it takes the "snapshot" at different aspects of the subject, hence the "zig-zagging" of guncam footage... both WWII and the more modern helicopter mounted GAU in the popular (in this thread) YouTube.

[Chips86]

From an outside perspective, can anybody answer me this one question:

Why do people insist on arguing on the internet? Its like the special olympics...no matter who wins, your all still retarded.

[Heliocon]

Originally Posted by Chips86

From an outside perspective, can anybody answer me this one question:

Why do people insist on arguing on the internet? Its like the special olympics...no matter who wins, your all still retarded.

I disagree, lets argue this out!

[Das Attorney]

There is no way that the human retina could absorb enough light from a passing incandescent object (like a tracer) to perceive any kind of impression that it is bending relative to the vector of the eye (and said owner of the eye).

Maybe if you fired a tracer round past a fly (for example), it could pull in enough light to detect a change in direction relative of the tracer round to the fly's own position if it were to move away quickly. But then, because it takes in more visual information per unit of time, it would see a vastly improved impression of the tracer, with a correspondingly short trail (less flare effect). Therefore; even a creature (and it would have to be a creature - not a human pilot) with vastly improved eyesight could not see tracers as bending.

Light (and interpretation of light) just doesn't work that way.

As for sources: I can't give you any right now. But if it will settle this physics lunacy, I will be/will not be (un)happy to cobble together a (certainly) boring and (utterly) (un)necessary post. I will do it in my own time, because it is so mind numbingly dull. I will look forward to people disputing it as soon as I (don't) post it.