What a tracer should look like (before spazzing just look).

[winny]

Originally Posted by SYN_Bliss

That's because you've gone from saying tracers should look like the same effect as someone waving a candle or flashlight to back peddling and saying the viewing angle is incorrect.

And for someone that says they are not stupid, then why don't you heed to the advice of someone who knows exactly what tracer ammunition looks like by being part of their job? You're trying to say that my daily experience with something is wrong because of what you read in a physics book.

All I can say is what we have in game, with regards to bending light and what your eye ball will see it as, is spot on. And unlike you, I know this from 1st hand experience virtually on a daily basis. I'm sick and tired of hearing the same BS from people like you that don't have the 1st clue about the subject in the 1st place. If you actually knew anything about physics then you'd also realize that at the speed of the bullet, your body would have to be jolted in such a way that's almost, if not entirely, life threatening to have any effect whatsoever with regards to how the round will look.

That's why it's laughable when your whole argument that you were talking about at SimHq with regards to a waving flashlight or candle is ridiculous. Once you realize that a tracer round from start to finish (in your viewing angle) disappears in a split second (depending on your offset / ammunition) you'll also realize that for the light to do anything in that short amount of time (through your naked eye) that your body has to be jolted in a HUGE way to even think about having any sort of effect of straightness of a tracer round to your naked eye.

You are not getting it, and by you arguing with someone that works with the subject matter on a daily basis, it's quite clear that you never will.

Rubbish.
The light's / candle reference is relevant, it's a moving light source, same as a tracer round.

I have always said that they don't follow the correct path, and they dont.

I don't heed your experience because you are 100% wrong in what you say.

Are you a WW2 fighter pilot? No. So by your own rule you can't comment on this.

An inescapeable truth is that CoD draws light in where it has never been.
No matter what you say, this is the case. I can prove it.

You prove that I'm wrong if you are so confident.

I know more about physics than you do otherwise you would not be arguing.

How many times do I have to say that I don't need any experience of firing tracers, I just need to understand cause and effect and be able to plot a bullets path relative to the viewer. That is all.
CoD draws 3D tracer streaks when in fact they are 2D. It's this that causes the difference between RL and CoD.

End Of.

[ATAG_Bliss]

Originally Posted by winny

Rubbish.
The light's / candle reference is relevant, it's a moving light source, same as a tracer round.

I have always said that they don't follow the correct path, and they dont.

I don't heed your experience because you are 100% wrong in what you say.

Are you a WW2 fighter pilot? No. So by your own rule you can't comment on this.

An inescapeable truth is that CoD draws light in where it has never been.
No matter what you say, this is the case. I can prove it.

You prove that I'm wrong if you are so confident.

I know more about physics than you do otherwise you would not be arguing.

How many times do I have to say that I don't need any experience of firing tracers, I just need to understand cause and effect and be able to plot a bullets path relative to the viewer. That is all.
CoD draws 3D tracer streaks when in fact they are 2D. It's this that causes the difference between RL and CoD.

End Of.

You are beyond help. And you are grasping at straws.

No kidding about the 2d and 3d thing. That's the 1st thing I said about the hardware limitations.

But by all means, please show me your way to PROVE how it's soo wrong.

Can't wait for your science. And I highly doubt you know more about physics than me considering I have a BSME from Rose Hulman.

Again, it's as if the ENTIRE conversation has gone over your head and I'm done discussing it with an imbecile.

[winny]

Originally Posted by SYN_Bliss

You are beyond help. And you are grasping at straws.

No kidding about the 2d and 3d thing. That's the 1st thing I said about the hardware limitations.

But by all means, please show me your way to PROVE how it's soo wrong.

Can't wait for your science. And I highly doubt you know more about physics than me considering I have a BSME from Rose Hulman.

Again, it's as if the ENTIRE conversation has gone over your head and I'm done discussing it with an imbecile.

Why are you getting personal? Can't you debate a point without resorting to calling me an imbecile?

Soo wrong? It's either wrong or it's right. Now you're also getting sarcastic.

If the path of the dot of light (relative to the viewer) is curved then the streak must also be curved. Put your BSME into practice and demonstrate to me how what is essentially a continuous curved line that fades away can leave repeated straight lines that don't point to where they came from behind it?

[klem]

taka taka taka taka taka ...

you're dead.

Serves you right for studying those streaks instead of your tail.
This has to be the umpteenth thread on this over-taxed subject. It isn't likely to change. Check the other threads.

[ATAG_Bliss]

Originally Posted by winny

If the path of the dot of light (relative to the viewer) is curved then the streak must also be curved. Put your BSME into practice and demonstrate to me how what is essentially a continuous curved line that fades away can leave repeated straight lines that don't point to where they came from behind it?

I'm getting personal because no matter what I show or tell you, you still don't listen.

Take a light source, say a laser pen light with a room full of smoke and point it towards something 5 ft away in a fixed position, so you can see the beam of light. Now have this light pattern repeat very rapidly. As this light source is switched on and off it will not matter one IOTA where you are standing or viewing the light. It will always be in a straight line UNLESS, you got hit by a freight train or decided to pull a few G's out of your butt while standing still. Your eye's WILL ALWAYS SEE THIS LINE AS STRAIGHT.

That is simple physics. You may see the line shorter or at a different angle depending on your viewing angle but viewing the trajectory of said moving object that produces the light trajectory will always be viewed in the in the same direction and trajectory that said object is traveling. (UNLESS as stated above)

If you can't understand that, then you need to take a remedial science class. Or you could quite simply fire and observe 1000's of rounds of tracer ammunition from fixed and high speed moving positions.

[winny]

Originally Posted by SYN_Bliss

I'm getting personal because no matter what I show or tell you, you still don't listen.

Take a light source, say a laser pen light with a room full of smoke and point it towards something 5 ft away in a fixed position, so you can see the beam of light. Now have this light pattern repeat very rapidly. As this light source is switched on and off it will not matter one IOTA where you are standing or viewing the light. It will always be in a straight line UNLESS, you got hit by a freight train or decided to pull a few G's out of your butt while standing still. Your eye's WILL ALWAYS SEE THIS LINE AS STRAIGHT.

That is simple physics. You may see the line shorter or at a different angle depending on your viewing angle but viewing the trajectory of said moving object that produces the light trajectory will always be viewed in the in the same direction and trajectory that said object is traveling. (UNLESS as stated above)

If you can't understand that, then you need to take a remedial science class. Or you could quite simply fire and observe 1000's of rounds of tracer ammunition from fixed and high speed moving positions.

A Laser beam is physical, tracer streak is not, it's an effect. You cannot compare. As you already said, tracer rounds are dots not beams of light. Different.

You need to take the basic science class not me. If the tracer left a trail of smoke that would be straight no matter what becuse it actually exists. Tracer streak can only exist when it's being viewed. It's not 'there' all the time. It's a dot, or is it a circle or is it 2 circles on top of each other?

You are all over the place. Trajectory is an objects path in a 3d space and we're not dealing in 3d.

Have you ever seen the wobbly pencil trick where you take a real pencil and move it up and down in such a way that it appears to bend? It must be real magic to you...

[ATAG_Bliss]

Originally Posted by winny

A Laser beam is physical, tracer streak is not, it's an effect. You cannot compare. As you already said, tracer rounds are dots not beams of light. Different.

You need to take the basic science class not me. If the tracer left a trail of smoke that would be straight no matter what becuse it actually exists. Tracer streak can only exist when it's being viewed. It's not 'there' all the time. It's a dot, or is it a circle or is it 2 circles on top of each other?

You are all over the place. Trajectory is an objects path in a 3d space and we're not dealing in 3d.

Have you ever seen the wobbly pencil trick where you take a real pencil and move it up and down in such a way that it appears to bend? It must be real magic to you...

Holy fricken cow. I'm talking to a 5 year old. I was trying to give you a way to see the effect that you are soo sure happens without actually using a machine gun. So the only thing I can suggest now is to pay someone in the military to set up a range so you can sit there and watch an automatic weapon with tracer rounds fire down range. That way you could run back and forth, jump up and down, clap your hands together and maybe, just maybe as you are spinning 360's and jumping up and down while watching real life ammunition go down range with your own real life eye balls, then you could finally see for your self they move fricken straight.

And for the 100000000000000X, the ONLY reason the pencil "trick" fools your eyeballs is when you are FOCUSING on said pencil. You DO NOT FRICKEN FOCUS ON AN INDIVIDUAL TRACER ROUND WHILE FIRING A WEAPON.

What a complete and utter retard.

[winny]

No I'm 37.

Retard?

What are you focusing on in CoD? Everything, infinite focal length.

Anyway, here's a diagram. It shows the fight path of 1 bullet between 2 points in time, 1 and 2.

The bullet (Black dot) is fired at X as the aircraft is moving to the left. I have then marked it at several points through it's flight. Not to scale but it works whatever the sideways movement.

At all points the bullet stays straight, aligned to the original target (red lines to the X)

Because its a single point of light we can track where the bullet must have been relative to the viewer. It cannot jump, it must take a continuous path.

This is the purple line, the actual relative path across the eye. It is where the light went. CoD draws tracers aligned to the straight red line (line of flight) when the true path of the point of light across the image is the purple line. The light streak can only exist within this line.

Please let me know, with all of your experience and physics knowledge what part of this is wrong?

[Heliocon]

Ok I am not reading all this crap but first off no matter who says it - anyone claiming to have RL experience take with a grain of salt, it is the internet. That being said what winny is saying is up to page 9 (stopped there) is correct to an extent. As for the 2d the problem there is that you have 2 eyes that the brain uses to create a 3d image, even though each eye can only see in "2d" individually.
The effect of the trail being left in your eye WOULD occur if you stared at it/focued on it, it would "burn" an image into your retina (desensitizes or overloads certain receptors, cant remember the actual biology of it) just like staring at a lightbulb and then closing your eyes. But you would have to be focusing on the round for it to remain in your vision in that way.

Also wouldnt higher calibre rounds have a larger base and more area emitting light? I dont know (thats why I am asking lol).

[Wolf_Rider]

looks like the MKI eyeball fps thing won't be explained... must be something selective being applied there - oh well

oh, oh.. that's right - sparklers aren't rounds tracers, they're sparklers

Originally Posted by winny

I'll have a look..
But I have already taken frames from the same video and drawn straight lines through the tracer and the vast majority are, when the camera is moving, very slightly curved, try it. Some are very curved btw.

yesss, you've said it yourself - "when the camera is moving" you're seeing the same camera quirk that has tracers zig-zagging in guncam footage