Should 1C/UBI make Steam optional?

[Blackdog_kt]

Guys, read what the guy wrote

Originally Posted by Les

This is a deliberately biased poll

The meaning of the poll is simple:
a) there are people who like and use Steam that still think it's a good idea to make it optional so others can choose not to use it
b) not everyone who doesn't want to use Steam is foam-at-the-mouth raving mad

It's a break-down of the "let's make it optional" people into different categories, to show the Steam fans that not all of us hate Steam. We just want a choice and as long it doesn't interfere with the choice of Steam fans all is well.

Finally, i guess it's also one sided because i fully trust and expect a lot among the posters here to answer "no, i want this to be forced on everyone just because i like it" if they had the choice to do so

Originally Posted by Skoshi Tiger

If other games are functioning successfully in both steam and non-steam modes why is there such a big push to assimulate everyone into the collective?


Edit- How about an poll option - I don't mind steam but I would not be able to use the software purchaced in the manner that I wish without viloating the terms of the agreement?

Cheers!

Exactly. We want you to have the choice of using your favorite platform. It's just that some of you are loathe to recognize a similar benefit for those of us with a different opinion. Get real guys, we don't have to like it and this forced assimilation is making us dislike it even more.

Also, what Skoshi said above about the extra poll option is very good...it would give an indication about how many people would go to the trouble of cracking their legally bought game to bypass steam.

Bottom line is we don't want you to like our ways and habits, it's some of you that want to make everyone else like yours. Sorry, it doesn't work that way.

Originally Posted by Heliocon

sorry - got to say it! Stupid thread.

And no it should not be optional, that will make it easier to pirate.

Shogun 2 total war is already up on the torrents, plus CoD already has another DRM scheme, so i'm calling bogus on this assessment. You want to use it, fine, go ahead. You want to make me use it when i have no use for it, not fine at all.


That's the bottom line really and the reason the poll is deliberately biased: some people think they have the right to forcibly convert everyone to their personal set of preferences. However, you can easily see that there are also reasonable people among the Steam fans, those who answered "i like it but it should be optional".

I'm repeating myself here but it's not my fault that the same repetitive "arguments" in favor of assimilation are still getting used anyway. If you ask the same question or provide the same reasoning that was already discounted in the past you'll still get the same answer, so here it goes again: the poll is not meant to show support or dislike for Steam, it's meant to provide a breakdown of the different groups of people who think it should be optional, in order to show that even among Steam fans there are people who share this opinion and consider it more beneficial to the community, developers and title's long term life as a whole, than what we are currently getting.

Originally Posted by Voyager

Let me get this straight, you really think only being able to install the game five times is better than having to deal with Steam?

I may not care much about install limits on an FPS I'm going to dumpster in two months, but I was kind of planning on playing CoD for a while. Maybe you're not?

I'm not much of a DRM fan in general, but it seems their system is very similar to the one used in DCS: A10.
Install on up to 3 PCs the moment you get the game, get one activation per month re-credited to you to install on another one. If you still manage to run out, email your cd-key to tech support as proof of purchase and receive 3 activations. I don't think there's many people who will install on 3 PCs right away and then on more than a new PC each month, so it's reasonable.

If they really want to go "portable" they will choose Steam, otherwise they'll stay with Solidshield, that is IF a steam-only version is released.

You see, a lot of steam fans don't seem to realize that just because it's on Steam doesn't mean it won't have Solidshield DRM on top of that. It's been clearly stated that it will require both so no, you can't do away with Solidshield just because it uses Steam (at least from what we currently know from official sources). What does this mean?

As of current knowledge, no matter which version you buy you will still be limited to a pool of 3 initial activations plus a replenishment activation getting credited to the pool once per month. So no, you can't go on and install it on more than 3 PCs on release day just because it uses steam and you have an account there.

Not directed at you personally, but once this bit of information sets in i am fully expecting epic whinning about lack of choice and redundant multi-layered DRM to commence from the same posters who've been poking fun at us for saying the exact same thing the past week or so

I havent been reading much about the steam posts , I cant see what is the big deal though. I use steam , i'd rather download a game then have to use a cd crack , it's the same game as a cd version , who cares if it has some protection on it. It still works , who gives a crap.

[Heliocon]

Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt

Guys, read what the guy wrote





The meaning of the poll is simple:
a) there are people who like and use Steam that still think it's a good idea to make it optional so others can choose not to use it
b) not everyone who doesn't want to use Steam is foam-at-the-mouth raving mad

It's a break-down of the "let's make it optional" people into different categories, to show the Steam fans that not all of us hate Steam. We just want a choice and as long it doesn't interfere with the choice of Steam fans all is well.

Finally, i guess it's also one sided because i fully trust and expect a lot among the posters here to answer "no, i want this to be forced on everyone just because i like it" if they had the choice to do so





Exactly. We want you to have the choice of using your favorite platform. It's just that some of you are loathe to recognize a similar benefit for those of us with a different opinion. Get real guys, we don't have to like it and this forced assimilation is making us dislike it even more.

Also, what Skoshi said above about the extra poll option is very good...it would give an indication about how many people would go to the trouble of cracking their legally bought game to bypass steam.

Bottom line is we don't want you to like our ways and habits, it's some of you that want to make everyone else like yours. Sorry, it doesn't work that way.




Shogun 2 total war is already up on the torrents, plus CoD already has another DRM scheme, so i'm calling bogus on this assessment. You want to use it, fine, go ahead. You want to make me use it when i have no use for it, not fine at all.


That's the bottom line really and the reason the poll is deliberately biased: some people think they have the right to forcibly convert everyone to their personal set of preferences. However, you can easily see that there are also reasonable people among the Steam fans, those who answered "i like it but it should be optional".

I'm repeating myself here but it's not my fault that the same repetitive "arguments" in favor of assimilation are still getting used anyway. If you ask the same question or provide the same reasoning that was already discounted in the past you'll still get the same answer, so here it goes again: the poll is not meant to show support or dislike for Steam, it's meant to provide a breakdown of the different groups of people who think it should be optional, in order to show that even among Steam fans there are people who share this opinion and consider it more beneficial to the community, developers and title's long term life as a whole, than what we are currently getting.





I'm not much of a DRM fan in general, but it seems their system is very similar to the one used in DCS: A10.
Install on up to 3 PCs the moment you get the game, get one activation per month re-credited to you to install on another one. If you still manage to run out, email your cd-key to tech support as proof of purchase and receive 3 activations. I don't think there's many people who will install on 3 PCs right away and then on more than a new PC each month, so it's reasonable.

If they really want to go "portable" they will choose Steam, otherwise they'll stay with Solidshield, that is IF a steam-only version is released.

You see, a lot of steam fans don't seem to realize that just because it's on Steam doesn't mean it won't have Solidshield DRM on top of that. It's been clearly stated that it will require both so no, you can't do away with Solidshield just because it uses Steam (at least from what we currently know from official sources). What does this mean?

As of current knowledge, no matter which version you buy you will still be limited to a pool of 3 initial activations plus a replenishment activation getting credited to the pool once per month. So no, you can't go on and install it on more than 3 PCs on release day just because it uses steam and you have an account there.

Not directed at you personally, but once this bit of information sets in i am fully expecting epic whinning about lack of choice and redundant multi-layered DRM to commence from the same posters who've been poking fun at us for saying the exact same thing the past week or so

I never said steam would make it impossible to pirate - just that not having steam on all compies would make it overall easier to pirate.

No one is forcing you to buy the game if it uses steam, dont say we are. Also I never said I was against having non steam versions/alternatives (which I am), just that the thread and poll were silly and it does nothing to advance the debate / discussion. Also if everyone has to have steam so we dont get yuplay, yes I will force you to use steam

Did the pirates also patch in dx10/dx11/AA into shogun 2?

[Untamo]

Many times people ask, why does someone dislike Steam?

Rant mode on.

Here's my bit, directly from Steam EULA:

Valve hereby grants, and you accept, a limited, terminable, non-exclusive license and right to use the Software for your personal use

Meaning: Valve can take any game off their servers anyday, and you don't have any say in it. No more of that game for you.

This, combined with the fact that no company lasts forever, is why I'm against Steam. I like to play old games, something of a nostalgic I am.

Let's say, that after 20 years from now I'd like, in a whim of nostalgia, to play a little bit of that old flight sim, IL-2 CoD. But wait... oh.. they have taken it off from their servers as it was played so little.. OR .. oh.. Valve went bankrupt 10 years ago. Nostalgia moment ruined.

Optimist would say: 1C would likely to make a non-Steam patch for it.

I ask: Would they, for a 20 year old, (almost)forgotten game?

I would like to like Steam. It's a great idea (apart from the license part), it works great, but for how long?

Thusfar I have dared to buy one license(you don't own the game), ArmA2, from Steam, as it was so cheap on the Xmas sale, and I'm not so emotionally attached to it as I am to the IL-2 series. So, if the Steam servers would be shut down tomorrow, it wouldn't ruin my life.

Rant mode off.

-Untamo

You don't need to be on the steam servers to play the game , you can launch it from your games folder , it's installed on your HDD. Games will always work from steam. Online play might be another story but that is fair enough.

[Untamo]

Originally Posted by machoo

You don't need to be on the steam servers to play the game , you can launch it from your games folder , it's installed on your HDD. Games will always work from steam. Online play might be another story but that is fair enough.

Infact, yes you have to, just not continuously. Atleast once for every few months if I remember correctly, or your installation goes disabled and you have to reinstall it.

-Untamo

[Blackdog_kt]

Originally Posted by Heliocon

I never said steam would make it impossible to pirate - just that not having steam on all compies would make it overall easier to pirate.

No one is forcing you to buy the game if it uses steam, dont say we are. Also I never said I was against having non steam versions/alternatives (which I am), just that the thread and poll were silly and it does nothing to advance the debate / discussion. Also if everyone has to have steam so we dont get yuplay, yes I will force you to use steam

Did the pirates also patch in dx10/dx11/AA into shogun 2?

You really are a narrow-minded fellow, aren't you? I'm not eager to use something that has no benefit to me, deal with it, move on and let us argue our case to the developer to have a friggin' option that doesn't affect the rest of you in the slightest. Some of you guys are worse than certain asian communist regimes of the 60s-70s with your forced indoctrination.

I know what you'll say, "nobody is forcing you to buy the game", but i have a better idea. I'll buy the game so that my say carries some weight as a legitimate customer and not a bystander, then i'll keep complaining about the lack of an alternative in the same way you constantly complain about lack of DX11 support. And guess what, their track record shows that whenever something persists for a long time they do eventually provide the option:
1) trim changes
2) various FM changes over the years
3) they had the ability to make mods incompatible with the TD patches but they didn't because a lot of people in the community use them

...and so on. So yes, we might still be forced to use this and have you basking in your snobbishness for the first release, but if there's not a long term contractual agreement i wouldn't be surprised to see the sequels coming in two different versions.

Maybe the modding community will come up with a workaround that disables it (it's not exactly hard to for someone who knows what he's doing, if you visit the pirate torrent trackers and run a small search you'll see that 90% of the steam games are pirated) without disabling the solidshield DRM.

Bottom line is, there is a minority but significant demand for a no-steam version and if it's not done through official means it will be done through unofficial ones down the line and you can't do much about it. I don't want to be a part of your group, buddy list or whatever, i just want to play the game, so forcing me to use Steam will still not get you what you expect to get from it because i won't use any of its features apart from the "join server" function. Get it?

Also, your Uplay argument is a red herring because
a) after the initial fiasco Ubi abandoned it and uses steam but
b) the intellectual property of CoD lies with 1c and not Ubi and
c) there is already another DRM scheme in place which, based on your "my way or the highway" approach, i really hope you will be forced to use on top of steam as it seems to be the case.

Despite it being based on a false premise, if you say that "in order not to get Uplay i'll force you to use Steam" i can just say that in order to have complex engine management and FM/DM improvements i'll force you not to have DX11 support and if you don't like it then haha, deal with it because this is a game about aircraft and mechanics are more important than visuals because i say so
This is exactly the attitude you guys have been displaying and it doesn't make Steam any friends to have a select few going around like a bunch of self-flogging zealots aggressively trying to convert everyone to their views. The more you rant about it, the more averse to it you make the rest of us.

Finally, the poll clearly shows thus far that the majority of people who want it to be optional either have it and like it or are neutrally predisposed to it. Maybe that's why you lot didn't like this poll, because it clearly nullifies your "let's lump everyone together for ease of discrediting" false argument that everyone who wants the option to opt out is an ill-informed hater with no personal experience. Well, think again because as of now 35% of the people who want it to be optional are steam fans and another 40% are neutral to it.

[Skoshi Tiger]

I just want to know why they wont let me buy and run two copies of the game without having to go to the length of getting different emails and accounts.

Licence management programs are old tech, We've been running one at work for years. It knows how many licences you've bought and only lets that many copies of the program run? Crikey how hard can it be?

[TheGrunch]

Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt

Despite it being based on a false premise, if you say that "in order not to get Uplay i'll force you to use Steam" i can just say that in order to have complex engine management and FM/DM improvements i'll force you not to have DX11 support and if you don't like it then haha, deal with it because this is a game about aircraft and mechanics are more important than visuals because i say so

[kingpinda]

I can't answer the poll because my answer isnt in there.

I have no problems whatsoever to have to use steam without it being optional.