Should 1C/UBI make Steam optional?

[Untamo]

Many times people ask, why does someone dislike Steam?

Rant mode on.

Here's my bit, directly from Steam EULA:

Valve hereby grants, and you accept, a limited, terminable, non-exclusive license and right to use the Software for your personal use

Meaning: Valve can take any game off their servers anyday, and you don't have any say in it. No more of that game for you.

This, combined with the fact that no company lasts forever, is why I'm against Steam. I like to play old games, something of a nostalgic I am.

Let's say, that after 20 years from now I'd like, in a whim of nostalgia, to play a little bit of that old flight sim, IL-2 CoD. But wait... oh.. they have taken it off from their servers as it was played so little.. OR .. oh.. Valve went bankrupt 10 years ago. Nostalgia moment ruined.

Optimist would say: 1C would likely to make a non-Steam patch for it.

I ask: Would they, for a 20 year old, (almost)forgotten game?

I would like to like Steam. It's a great idea (apart from the license part), it works great, but for how long?

Thusfar I have dared to buy one license(you don't own the game), ArmA2, from Steam, as it was so cheap on the Xmas sale, and I'm not so emotionally attached to it as I am to the IL-2 series. So, if the Steam servers would be shut down tomorrow, it wouldn't ruin my life.

Rant mode off.

-Untamo

You don't need to be on the steam servers to play the game , you can launch it from your games folder , it's installed on your HDD. Games will always work from steam. Online play might be another story but that is fair enough.

[Untamo]

Originally Posted by machoo

You don't need to be on the steam servers to play the game , you can launch it from your games folder , it's installed on your HDD. Games will always work from steam. Online play might be another story but that is fair enough.

Infact, yes you have to, just not continuously. Atleast once for every few months if I remember correctly, or your installation goes disabled and you have to reinstall it.

-Untamo

[Blackdog_kt]

Originally Posted by Heliocon

I never said steam would make it impossible to pirate - just that not having steam on all compies would make it overall easier to pirate.

No one is forcing you to buy the game if it uses steam, dont say we are. Also I never said I was against having non steam versions/alternatives (which I am), just that the thread and poll were silly and it does nothing to advance the debate / discussion. Also if everyone has to have steam so we dont get yuplay, yes I will force you to use steam

Did the pirates also patch in dx10/dx11/AA into shogun 2?

You really are a narrow-minded fellow, aren't you? I'm not eager to use something that has no benefit to me, deal with it, move on and let us argue our case to the developer to have a friggin' option that doesn't affect the rest of you in the slightest. Some of you guys are worse than certain asian communist regimes of the 60s-70s with your forced indoctrination.

I know what you'll say, "nobody is forcing you to buy the game", but i have a better idea. I'll buy the game so that my say carries some weight as a legitimate customer and not a bystander, then i'll keep complaining about the lack of an alternative in the same way you constantly complain about lack of DX11 support. And guess what, their track record shows that whenever something persists for a long time they do eventually provide the option:
1) trim changes
2) various FM changes over the years
3) they had the ability to make mods incompatible with the TD patches but they didn't because a lot of people in the community use them

...and so on. So yes, we might still be forced to use this and have you basking in your snobbishness for the first release, but if there's not a long term contractual agreement i wouldn't be surprised to see the sequels coming in two different versions.

Maybe the modding community will come up with a workaround that disables it (it's not exactly hard to for someone who knows what he's doing, if you visit the pirate torrent trackers and run a small search you'll see that 90% of the steam games are pirated) without disabling the solidshield DRM.

Bottom line is, there is a minority but significant demand for a no-steam version and if it's not done through official means it will be done through unofficial ones down the line and you can't do much about it. I don't want to be a part of your group, buddy list or whatever, i just want to play the game, so forcing me to use Steam will still not get you what you expect to get from it because i won't use any of its features apart from the "join server" function. Get it?

Also, your Uplay argument is a red herring because
a) after the initial fiasco Ubi abandoned it and uses steam but
b) the intellectual property of CoD lies with 1c and not Ubi and
c) there is already another DRM scheme in place which, based on your "my way or the highway" approach, i really hope you will be forced to use on top of steam as it seems to be the case.

Despite it being based on a false premise, if you say that "in order not to get Uplay i'll force you to use Steam" i can just say that in order to have complex engine management and FM/DM improvements i'll force you not to have DX11 support and if you don't like it then haha, deal with it because this is a game about aircraft and mechanics are more important than visuals because i say so
This is exactly the attitude you guys have been displaying and it doesn't make Steam any friends to have a select few going around like a bunch of self-flogging zealots aggressively trying to convert everyone to their views. The more you rant about it, the more averse to it you make the rest of us.

Finally, the poll clearly shows thus far that the majority of people who want it to be optional either have it and like it or are neutrally predisposed to it. Maybe that's why you lot didn't like this poll, because it clearly nullifies your "let's lump everyone together for ease of discrediting" false argument that everyone who wants the option to opt out is an ill-informed hater with no personal experience. Well, think again because as of now 35% of the people who want it to be optional are steam fans and another 40% are neutral to it.

[Skoshi Tiger]

I just want to know why they wont let me buy and run two copies of the game without having to go to the length of getting different emails and accounts.

Licence management programs are old tech, We've been running one at work for years. It knows how many licences you've bought and only lets that many copies of the program run? Crikey how hard can it be?

[Cobra8472]

Originally Posted by Skoshi Tiger

I just want to know why they wont let me buy and run two copies of the game without having to go to the length of getting different emails and accounts.

Licence management programs are old tech, We've been running one at work for years. It knows how many licences you've bought and only lets that many copies of the program run? Crikey how hard can it be?

Seriously, you want two copies of the game, on one account?

You can do that.

Why you'd want it, I have no ******* clue, but whatever. You can buy 2 copies and have them on the same account.

You can't log in to the account from two seperate PC's at the same time however, and I think it is logical why. If it is not for you.. well..

[TheGrunch]

Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt

Despite it being based on a false premise, if you say that "in order not to get Uplay i'll force you to use Steam" i can just say that in order to have complex engine management and FM/DM improvements i'll force you not to have DX11 support and if you don't like it then haha, deal with it because this is a game about aircraft and mechanics are more important than visuals because i say so

[Heliocon]

Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt

You really are a narrow-minded fellow, aren't you? I'm not eager to use something that has no benefit to me, deal with it, move on and let us argue our case to the developer to have a friggin' option that doesn't affect the rest of you in the slightest. Some of you guys are worse than certain asian communist regimes of the 60s-70s with your forced indoctrination.

I know what you'll say, "nobody is forcing you to buy the game", but i have a better idea. I'll buy the game so that my say carries some weight as a legitimate customer and not a bystander, then i'll keep complaining about the lack of an alternative in the same way you constantly complain about lack of DX11 support. And guess what, their track record shows that whenever something persists for a long time they do eventually provide the option:
1) trim changes
2) various FM changes over the years
3) they had the ability to make mods incompatible with the TD patches but they didn't because a lot of people in the community use them

...and so on. So yes, we might still be forced to use this and have you basking in your snobbishness for the first release, but if there's not a long term contractual agreement i wouldn't be surprised to see the sequels coming in two different versions.

Maybe the modding community will come up with a workaround that disables it (it's not exactly hard to for someone who knows what he's doing, if you visit the pirate torrent trackers and run a small search you'll see that 90% of the steam games are pirated) without disabling the solidshield DRM.

Bottom line is, there is a minority but significant demand for a no-steam version and if it's not done through official means it will be done through unofficial ones down the line and you can't do much about it. I don't want to be a part of your group, buddy list or whatever, i just want to play the game, so forcing me to use Steam will still not get you what you expect to get from it because i won't use any of its features apart from the "join server" function. Get it?

Also, your Uplay argument is a red herring because
a) after the initial fiasco Ubi abandoned it and uses steam but
b) the intellectual property of CoD lies with 1c and not Ubi and
c) there is already another DRM scheme in place which, based on your "my way or the highway" approach, i really hope you will be forced to use on top of steam as it seems to be the case.

Despite it being based on a false premise, if you say that "in order not to get Uplay i'll force you to use Steam" i can just say that in order to have complex engine management and FM/DM improvements i'll force you not to have DX11 support and if you don't like it then haha, deal with it because this is a game about aircraft and mechanics are more important than visuals because i say so
This is exactly the attitude you guys have been displaying and it doesn't make Steam any friends to have a select few going around like a bunch of self-flogging zealots aggressively trying to convert everyone to their views. The more you rant about it, the more averse to it you make the rest of us.

Finally, the poll clearly shows thus far that the majority of people who want it to be optional either have it and like it or are neutrally predisposed to it. Maybe that's why you lot didn't like this poll, because it clearly nullifies your "let's lump everyone together for ease of discrediting" false argument that everyone who wants the option to opt out is an ill-informed hater with no personal experience. Well, think again because as of now 35% of the people who want it to be optional are steam fans and another 40% are neutral to it.

1. When you compare forum posters to communists in the 60s and 70s it makes you look like an idiot.
2. It was a joke, grow up for christ sake. It was also a generalised statement about "alternative DRM" to steam, which is worse than steam imo. The the fact that you took it seriously even though I think it was clearly a joke, even including a emote/wink at the end of the line hints at something... but people who compare forum users talking about a game to communists/nazis etc dont have the brain power to understand and differentiate between a joke and a statement I guess.
Also I dont constantly complain about the lack of DX11 support, I complain that they contradict their own statements and sight problems that could be solved through DX11...

[vicinity]

Originally Posted by Untamo

Meaning: Valve can take any game off their servers anyday, and you don't have any say in it. No more of that game for you.

Sure they could, but unless they have a VERY good reason to, it's not going to happen. Pissing off your customers isn't good business practice.

Originally Posted by Untamo

This, combined with the fact that no company lasts forever, is why I'm against Steam. I like to play old games, something of a nostalgic I am.

Let's say, that after 20 years from now I'd like, in a whim of nostalgia, to play a little bit of that old flight sim, IL-2 CoD. But wait... oh.. they have taken it off from their servers as it was played so little.. OR .. oh.. Valve went bankrupt 10 years ago. Nostalgia moment ruined.

Optimist would say: 1C would likely to make a non-Steam patch for it.

I ask: Would they, for a 20 year old, (almost)forgotten game?

Well in 20 years it's much more likely Steam will still be around than say 1c...You should be more worried about 1c going out of business because if that happens once your activations run out you'll no longer be able play any more.

Originally Posted by Untamo

I would like to like Steam. It's a great idea (apart from the license part), it works great, but for how long?

Thusfar I have dared to buy one license(you don't own the game), ArmA2, from Steam, as it was so cheap on the Xmas sale, and I'm not so emotionally attached to it as I am to the IL-2 series. So, if the Steam servers would be shut down tomorrow, it wouldn't ruin my life.

You know it doesn't matter where you buy a game from, you're still only buying the license to play that game, right?

Your steam version of Arma II will probably outlast my disc version of Arma II despite me not not even needing to ever remove it from it's case.

[Blackdog_kt]

Originally Posted by Heliocon

1. When you compare forum posters to communists in the 60s and 70s it makes you look like an idiot.
2. It was a joke, grow up for christ sake. It was also a generalised statement about "alternative DRM" to steam, which is worse than steam imo. The the fact that you took it seriously even though I think it was clearly a joke, even including a emote/wink at the end of the line hints at something... but people who compare forum users talking about a game to communists/nazis etc dont have the brain power to understand and differentiate between a joke and a statement I guess.
Also I dont constantly complain about the lack of DX11 support, I complain that they contradict their own statements and sight problems that could be solved through DX11...

Well, if you really were posting in jest then my apologies are in order and i'll exclude you from the post's "target group". My comments still stand for whoever posts similar stuff and means it.