I would like one question,why is not included in this part of the E4 Messer?

[fruitbat]

Originally Posted by Tree_UK

Thinking about it, there is no way Oleg would leave the E4 out of the initial release, it was the Luft's main battle wagon.

wrong, E1, certainly at the start.

Originally Posted by fruitbat

wrong, E1, certainly at the start.

Well the E4's were in production in 1939 so they would have appeared in numbers during the BOB, to leave this out of the game is very poor. The E3's were upgraded to E4's as well.

[fruitbat]

Originally Posted by Tree_UK

Well the E4's were in production in 1939 so they would have appeared in numbers during the BOB, to leave this out of the game is very poor. The E3's were upgraded to E4's as well.

i don't disagree.

but not having an E1 is a bigger hole in the german plane set if you look at the numbers fielded, since at least the only diff really between he E3 and E4, is the Mg FF vs Mg FF/M

Hooton in Eagle in Flames gives the percentage losses of 109s by subtype:

July
E1 - 44%
E3 - 30%
E4 - 20%

August
E1 - 40%
E3 - 8%
E4 - 52%

September
E1 - 38%
E3 - 1%
E4 - 61%

October
E1 - 36%
E3 - 2%
E4 - 62%

and from Kurfust,

I have some actual numbers. On 31 August 1940, fighter units (excluding JG 77) reported 375 E-1s, 125 E-3s, 339 E-4s and 32 E-7s on strength, indicating that most of the E-3s had been already converted to E-4 standard. JG 77 had around 100-125 aircraft with it, but for the rest of the units, its 75% cannon E-3/4/7, the rest are all MG E-1s. The E-1 and E-3 were produced parallel and in about equal numbers from the end of 1938, but by mid-1940, the production of the E-1 stopped, replaced by the E-4 and then the E-7.

and,

In Ulrich Steinhilper's book 'Spitfire on My Tail', he relates quite clearly that they, JG52 didn't get there first cannon armed 109's until mid september (10th iirc, fenrirs got my copy at the moment so can't check), and then only 2, which were hand me downs from another unit.

personally i am surprised that oleg didn't go with an E1 and E4, which would of made the most sense to me.

Originally Posted by fruitbat

personally i am surprised that oleg didn't go with an E1 and E4, which would of made the most sense to me.

imagine...in Rise Of flight we have Fokker DVII with mercedes D.IIIa and DVIIF with BMW IIIa engine, both very rare (spec. BMW variant) and most produced variant was DVII with D.IIIau engine....
so having E3 in BOB and not having E1 and E4 is very odd decision.....also
but like I said...I hope Oleg will introduce E1 and E4 soon after initial release...really hope so....

[*Buzzsaw*]

Salute

The problem with trying to model an E4 as well as the E3 is it would require the model be redone, since the canopy and glass and some other details are different. I am surprised Oleg didn't model the E-1.

Drawing of E-1 and E-3:

http://www.airpages.ru/eng/draw/me109_2.shtml

Drawing of E-4:

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/8...09e4bigvi8.jpg

[JG53Frankyboy]

No, a 109 produced as an E-3 and got its MG-FF replaced with MG-FF/M became an E-4.
Wich canopy Maddox would use in a -1, -3 or -4 is totally unimportant. During BoB both canopy versions were used in all three armament variants.

[Flying Pencil]

Originally Posted by *Buzzsaw*

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/attachment.php?attachmentid=4781&d=1298733158
Drawing of E-1 and E-3:

http://www.airpages.ru/eng/draw/me109_2.shtml

Drawing of E-4:

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/8...09e4bigvi8.jpg

What do you think?

[Osprey]

Originally Posted by Tree_UK

Well the E4's were in production in 1939 so they would have appeared in numbers during the BOB, to leave this out of the game is very poor. The E3's were upgraded to E4's as well.

You are wrong. Less than 30% were E4's by the time the BoB was ending.

JG2 had mostly E-1's throughout, only the likes of Galland had newer types.

[TUSA/TX-Gunslinger]

Originally Posted by Osprey

You are wrong. Less than 30% were E4's by the time the BoB was ending.

JG2 had mostly E-1's throughout, only the likes of Galland had newer types.

And your sources? Please list. I'd like to know more.

Everything I have access to shows that across the extent of deployed Geshwader, both early in BoB and late in Bob E-1's - were minority - only assigned to some Enlisted pilots. Galland was in JG26 not 2.

I think also that Galland, Wick, Balthasar and other 'Kannon' mainly had E-4/N's. Look at the Octane rating on their aircraft in profiles. The issues is a bit confused by E-1's/E-3's with E-4 canopy and E-3's which had ben upgraded to E-4 standard.

BTW, my main JG26 source "JG26 Top Guns of the Luftwaffe - Donald Caldwell".

S!

Gunny

[robtek]

Just for info:

The canopy style has NOTHING to do with E3 or E4!!!!
The only difference between those models are the weapons in the wings!!!!
E3 -> MG-FF
E4 -> MG-FF/M

So ANY E3 that received the weapon upgrade was automatically a E4.
The squared canopy was refitted to all Emils when available, but some pilots wanted visibility more than protection.