4.10 Support & Bug Reporting

[NN_LUSO]

Originally Posted by EJGr.Ost_Caspar

Maybe we should guess, what plane it is? Could be a long night then.

Sorry,the Yaks planes!!

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

I don't know, what numbers are suitable for Yak fighters, but the ones you named, do not sound strange to me. And yes, at a fixed power (throttle) setting, a fixed prop pitch mean stable revolutions (RPM). You must understand, 100% propitch doesn't mean a flat propellar. The pitch is set for a wanted RPM.

I still wonder, what seems so strange to you in this?

[FS~Phat]

Noticed a few other have commented on this also and DT has not yet offered a comment on my post several pages ago and the more recent posts by people??

I can fly level with about 12% down elevator trim in 4.09m but require about 32% with 4.10m. This does indeed effect the flight model and response of the aircraft when trimmed for level flight.
Can DT please advise if this was intentional and by design or if it's a potential bug?

cheers

[_RAAF_Furball]

RE: setting confs.ini to CRT=1 and CRT=2 not allowing players to join a server.
(see pages 2, 10, 16, 17, 24 & 26)

Originally Posted by EJGr.Ost_Caspar

Confirmed as a bug, can happen at special circumstances.

Thank you.
Will it be fixed or do we need to take our server back to 4.09, in which CRT=1 and CRT=2 did work?

Thank you for your work on this great game - it is MUCH appreciated by the IL2 Community.

[JtD]

Originally Posted by FS~Phat

Can DT please advise if this was intentional and by design or if it's a potential bug?

It's intentional.

[Aviar]

Originally Posted by FS~Phat

Noticed a few other have commented on this also and DT has not yet offered a comment on my post several pages ago and the more recent posts by people??

I can fly level with about 12% down elevator trim in 4.09m but require about 32% with 4.10m. This does indeed effect the flight model and response of the aircraft when trimmed for level flight.
Can DT please advise if this was intentional and by design or if it's a potential bug?

cheers

Well, I'm no fan of the Spit and so I rarely fly it. However, I am curious about bug reports and this one is easy to test (if you still have a 4.09 version available, like I do).

I tested the 4.09 Spit 25lb vs the same plane in 4.10. It only takes 15 minutes for a simple test like this and you don't need an engineering degree either.

The man has a point. The two planes are totally different. Not only does the 4.10 Spit need a lot more down trim (I will roughly estimate about 2 1/2 times more), but the engine torque is much stronger on the 4.10 Spit...to the point it almost seems unflyable to me.

If you try and counteract the 4.10 torque (for level flight) with rudder or rudder trim, you need so much there's no way you can fly a straight heading. You will constantly loop to your left. In 4.09, a few clicks of the rudder trim left and the plane will fly straight and level.

Now, I have no idea which flight model is 'correct', but there's no way these two Spit FM's were the same. Not even close. (Also, to be fair, I only tested this one Spit model.)

However, has DT officially stated that the 4.09 and 4.10 Spit FM's are the same? (If not, there's not much anyone can do, is there?)

I'm just glad I'm not a Spit fan.


**EDIT - In the 4.10 Readme: 'Revised flight models for all Spitfires.'

Well, that says it all. The only reason I made this post was because I felt sorry for the people who I thought were being ignored by DT. I thought the issue was whether or not the Spit FM's were changed in 4.10.

Since the FM changes are documented in the Readme, I have no more comment. I'm not an expert on FM's so I don't get caught up in those kind of topics.

Aviar

[swiss]

Originally Posted by Aviar

I'm just glad I'm not a Spit fan.
Aviar

You sure sound like one.

If you're correct, the spit guys finally must learn to fly.

[vparez]

I tested Spit VIII (4.09) and Spit LF VIII (4.10) which should be the same airplane, and I can also confirm the trim and torque problems.

I tested the airplane at 2000m, 80% throttle and 70% pitch, which should be roughly the good settings for a fast cruise (at least in this game), thinking that the airplane should have its ailerons pre-trimmed for this kind of flight. Of course, it rolls very notably to the right, unless I introduce heavy skid to the left.

Something else I noticed, and I am quite puzzled by this, so if anyone can explain: in 4.09 Spits VIII, IXc, IXe and HF IXe all show Boost +8 at 500m with throttle set to 80%.

In 4.10 Spits LF VIII, IXc 1942, IXc 1943, LF IXe and HF IX all show Boost of about +10.5 at the same settings and the same altitude.

What is changed? Also, should all of these engines show the same manifold pressure at 500m considering some are optimized for low altitude and some for high? Does this mean that an HF spit is capable of the same speed at 500m as an LF?

[Fenrir]

@ Swiss - Typical flippant response from a blue-only flyer who clearly hasn't flown anything outside of a 109/190.

IMHO the 4.09 spits were more difficult to takeoff and land, Torque at these points of the flight regime seem reduced in 4.10.

The induced roll in the 4.10 Spits is happening at anywhere above ~200mph and is NOT torque. Torque roll would always be to the left, this is to the right.

Rather, I suspect it is the effect of airframe bias, whereby a little trim is inherently built into the structure of the the airframe, whether it be slightly offset vertical stabilisers, or as in the Macchi series, the asymmetric wing profile. This limits the a/c to being inherently trimmed at only a narrow speed/power setting, with the pilot having to work the a/c trim more above and below these settings.

Whether the TD spits are correct or not I cannot say. I have no proof, documented or otherwise and have not seen their source to comment on the veracity of it.

I will say that in my opinion, the original 4.09s felt more logical as knowing what happens aerodynamically the behaviour could be accounted for. Now I'm not sure why they behave this way - it seems like torque effects are reduced in all flight regimes - incuding climb out and power changes but that has been arrived at by lowering the effective trim speed of the a/c. During all other manouevres above 200mph approx, the Mk Ixs particularly want to drop the right wing.

[swiss]

Originally Posted by Fenrir

@ Swiss - Typical flippant response from a blue-only flyer who clearly hasn't flown anything outside of a 109/190.

You my friend, have no idea.
In fact I fly red planes once in while(sometimes you just have to, to even out teams) - however I hate TnB planes.
The spit 25 is my favorite plane whenever I feel the need to correct my k/d ratio - I always get an instant boost of at least 150%, and yes, it works pretty well as a BnZ fighter too.