Mustang accident

[Blackdog_kt]

Give it a rest or i'm taking out the banhammer. And no, i don't accept PMs about it and won't discuss it further. This thread has been going to the dumps for quite a while now and it's a shame because it does contain valid information and i wouldn't want to lock it and spoil it for everyone who's debating in good spirit.

So i'd rather exclude the agitators and delete their posts so that nobody will know they ever existed, in the interest of providing the majority with a suitable venue to discuss this aviation incident: if it comes to the point where someone has to suffer a penalty, it's the minority that has to suffer for the benefit of the majority, especially if the minority is the one stirring the pot in the first place.

Disagreeing about the thread topic = good, it's all about exchanging opinions.
Trying to force a personal opinion onto others and turning things personal = e-fascism, it's not tolerated and will be responded to in kind by restricting the posting privileges of the offenders

Either learn that you speak for yourself first and foremost and not everyone else, or don't bother posting any further.

Excuse my blunt tone, but it seems that being polite and long-winded is seen as a weakness by some, so i'll say it in a language that will be better understood by them: don't disrupt the forum discussions by making things personally antagonistic, by bogging every discussion down to the usual drivel it's encroaching on the freedom of other members to use the forum in its intended manner and it's something that's taken very seriously by the moderating team. So either straighten up and fly right or GTFO and don't return.
I can easily ban someone and delete every single one of their posts, which is a troll's biggest fear: nobody will know they were ever here. So either play nice with other people or go to your room and play by yourself.

Some people need to understand that not everyone will agree with them and when each side has presented their opinion and arguments, it's a good time to call it a day and have all involved parties agree that they disagree. End of.

[JG52Krupi]

Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt

Give it a rest or i'm taking out the banhammer. And no, i don't accept PMs about it and won't discuss it further. This thread has been going to the dumps for quite a while now and it's a shame because it does contain valid information and i wouldn't want to lock it and spoil it for everyone who's debating in good spirit.

So i'd rather exclude the agitators and delete their posts so that nobody will know they ever existed, in the interest of providing the majority with a suitable venue to discuss this aviation incident: if it comes to the point where someone has to suffer a penalty, it's the minority that has to suffer for the benefit of the majority, especially if the minority is the one stirring the pot in the first place.

Disagreeing about the thread topic = good, it's all about exchanging opinions.
Trying to force a personal opinion onto others and turning things personal = e-fascism, it's not tolerated and will be responded to in kind by restricting the posting privileges of the offenders

Either learn that you speak for yourself first and foremost and not everyone else, or don't bother posting any further.

Excuse my blunt tone, but it seems that being polite and long-winded is seen as a weakness by some, so i'll say it in a language that will be better understood by them: don't disrupt the forum discussions by making things personally antagonistic, by bogging every discussion down to the usual drivel it's encroaching on the freedom of other members to use the forum in its intended manner and it's something that's taken very seriously by the moderating team. So either straighten up and fly right or GTFO and don't return.
I can easily ban someone and delete every single one of their posts, which is a troll's biggest fear: nobody will know they were ever here. So either play nice with other people or go to your room and play by yourself.

Some people need to understand that not everyone will agree with them and when each side has presented their opinion and arguments, it's a good time to call it a day and have all involved parties agree that they disagree. End of.

TBH from what I have read most ppl are willing to see both sides of the argument and only a handful that are not... one of these may have been banned before

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt

Give it a rest or i'm taking out the banhammer. And no, i don't accept PMs about it and won't discuss it further. This thread has been going to the dumps for quite a while now and it's a shame because it does contain valid information and i wouldn't want to lock it and spoil it for everyone who's debating in good spirit.

So i'd rather exclude the agitators and delete their posts so that nobody will know they ever existed, in the interest of providing the majority with a suitable venue to discuss this aviation incident: if it comes to the point where someone has to suffer a penalty, it's the minority that has to suffer for the benefit of the majority, especially if the minority is the one stirring the pot in the first place.

Disagreeing about the thread topic = good, it's all about exchanging opinions.
Trying to force a personal opinion onto others and turning things personal = e-fascism, it's not tolerated and will be responded to in kind by restricting the posting privileges of the offenders

Either learn that you speak for yourself first and foremost and not everyone else, or don't bother posting any further.

Excuse my blunt tone, but it seems that being polite and long-winded is seen as a weakness by some, so i'll say it in a language that will be better understood by them: don't disrupt the forum discussions by making things personally antagonistic, by bogging every discussion down to the usual drivel it's encroaching on the freedom of other members to use the forum in its intended manner and it's something that's taken very seriously by the moderating team. So either straighten up and fly right or GTFO and don't return.
I can easily ban someone and delete every single one of their posts, which is a troll's biggest fear: nobody will know they were ever here. So either play nice with other people or go to your room and play by yourself.

Some people need to understand that not everyone will agree with them and when each side has presented their opinion and arguments, it's a good time to call it a day and have all involved parties agree that they disagree. End of.

I'm sorry man, but to be honest this is not a fair assessment of the situation. It is quite blatant what a certain member is doing here, a behaviour for which he has been banned before, the fact that nobody agrees with him and that he's starting his usual trolling behaviour is a sign of his intentions me thinks.

It's obvious that when in a topic there's a call for respect on dead people and this is not taken into consideration, there's something that doesn't quite add, if anything to common sense.

[Blackdog_kt]

He doens't have to agree with you and you don't have to agree with him either. Accepting that an argument is not a "win/lose" convincing contest but a means to see different perspectives by talking to people of different dispositions and all that jazz

It's more the manner that i find disrupting of the normal conversation flow, stating an opinion and presenting some arguments vs being repetitively antagonistic for the sake of it.

Originally Posted by JG52Krupi

TBH from what I have read most ppl are willing to see both sides of the argument and only a handful that are not... one of these may have been banned before

You're exactly right, the vast majority are reasonable people around here that might snap from time to time, something i consider part of human nature and don't go after (heck, that's exactly what i did in my previous post, i need to vent off some steam too once per month ).

I just don't like pointing fingers specifically so i describe a situation and let it sink in on its own, if anyone is guilty of it rest assured that he knows who he is and what kind of moderating action to expect

[ATAG_Doc]

As more facts are learned about what happened this would be an interesting thread. Just don't reply to the agitator(s). Talk around them. I think Jimmy had something happen to him like a stoke or something. There was a new video posted that clearly shows the trim tab coming off well after the climb-n-roll. Which makes me thinks perhaps he jerked the stick back for some reason causing enormous stress to be placed on the air-frame causing the tab to fly off.

P.S. We're all human and subject to venting now and then.

[Helrza]

Originally Posted by timej31

As more facts are learned about what happened this would be an interesting thread. Just don't reply to the agitator(s). Talk around them. I think Jimmy had something happen to him like a stoke or something. There was a new video posted that clearly shows the trim tab coming off well after the climb-n-roll. Which makes me thinks perhaps he jerked the stick back for some reason causing enormous stress to be placed on the air-frame causing the tab to fly off.

P.S. We're all human and subject to venting now and then.

funny you should say that, becuase the tail wheel also poped out b4 the climb and roll also. Might be the end of the trim tab theory.

[ATAG_Doc]

Originally Posted by Helrza

funny you should say that, becuase the tail wheel also poped out b4 the climb and roll also. Might be the end of the trim tab theory.

Yes you're right I forgot to mention that good catch. Indeed it did.

[Crumpp]

funny you should say that, becuase the tail wheel also poped out b4 the climb and roll also. Might be the end of the trim tab theory.

The trim tab does not have to separate from the airplane for the elevator trim to break.

[Madfish]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

I'm sorry man, but to be honest this is not a fair assessment of the situation. It is quite blatant what a certain member is doing here, a behaviour for which he has been banned before, the fact that nobody agrees with him and that he's starting his usual trolling behaviour is a sign of his intentions me thinks.

It's obvious that when in a topic there's a call for respect on dead people and this is not taken into consideration, there's something that doesn't quite add, if anything to common sense.

Too be honest I can't agree with this. Some points he makes I can't agree with but a lot of valid points are in there as well. So "nobody" is wrong. Partially I agree with him but I also don't agree with the defenders.

Secondly instead of pointing fingers at him you should realize that if you look at this thread objectively most of you guys are ganging up on him, insulting, twisting words etc. as well. Not sure who started it but the way I see it it's only logical: This is a forum for plane lovers (warbirds even) so it's natural that many are defending a lost cause.

It's a fact that reno races are a risky gamble, due to many mechanics of this series, and not a controlled environment. They should re-think their safety standards. That doesn't mean it has to be banned though.

The way I see it the series needs to take a break and see how they could improve like Red Bull does it. I mentioned a dozen of things they could do to improve, to say that there is nothing that could be done is just wrong.




That said I also don't believe that a trim tab needs to come off. But I also can barely believe that just a trim tab falling off would be the cause.
I assume there was something happening before it came off but it's hard to say what at this point. I guess we'll have to wait for an official report.

[winny]

Popular Mechanics has done an article on the crash.

Some stuff I'd not heard before in it.