p38 defense

[edward allen]

I occasionlly fly the p38 and I'm mostly a target drone. Are there any other defensive moves other than a dive to get out of trouble. I always boom and
zoom with this plane but still get into trouble. Also I thought the "cloverleaf'
manoever was a series of hi-yo's.

[majorfailure]

Depends what you are up against. Vs. most japanese (not J2 and Ki-84) planes you have the speed advantage, use it. And you climb better tan them when you are fast.
Against German/Italian opposition you are as good as dead when you have to defend, your roll rate is inferior. In general vs. German/Italian opposition in a P-38 is a tough game, you cannot roll with them, can barely turn with them, they can climb as well as you and are as fast as you are.

[rakinroll]

Use your P-38's air-brake which make your plane better turner and roller even at low speed. And while using air-brake you can answer FW190's scissors maneuver effectively. Here is the video of Antred (P-38L) against me (FW-190A-. You can see how Antred can easily turn and roll with me at low speed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNCWcK4ZXVI

Here is the same dogfights video from FW-190's view (starts 10:20):

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xc2...t-3_videogames

[Treetop64]

There is no "fixed" way of doing well and staying out of trouble. Combat - even simulated "make-believe" air combat in this game - is very fluid and dynamic, and you must continuously reassess the situation in real time, and adapt to it accordingly. Having said that, there are some basic tips that definitely help in the P-38:

- Stay fast. Always stay fast. Never slow down for anything unless you're landing. If you're about to overshoot your target, then overshoot it, but stay fast and climb out, come around, and if the situation allows it, try again. Unless he's the only enemy left and you still have some help, don't slow down just to stay on someone backside. He may still have help himself, or might actually out-fly you, and you'll be too big and slow to do anything about it. Then you'll need someone to come in and rescue you, and you don't want to depend on that.

- Fly smooth. No sudden movements or sharp turns unless your survival immediately and absolutely depends on it. Forget any nonsense about asymmetrical or combat/dive flaps maneuvering in the P-38 that you may hve read about in the forums. You shouldn't be dogfighting in the P-38 in the first place.

- Stay high. If you're not above your opponent and are not unavoidably engaged in a fight, disengage and take the time to go wide and put yourself above everyone else.

- Try not to put yourself in a position to get shot back at. Flown a certain way the P-38 is fast enough to allow you to do this in most cases.

You need to be patient in planes like the P-38, always plan ahead, and always have an exit strategy. It doesn't guarantee success, but it tilts the odds in your favor.

If you fly online, I would frankly suggest avoiding the bullshit "No BnZ Allowed" servers...

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by majorfailure

Depends what you are up against. Vs. most japanese (not J2 and Ki-84) planes you have the speed advantage, use it. And you climb better tan them when you are fast.

Early to mid-war Japanese planes are a well-flown P-38's natural prey. Their lack of armor and self-sealing fuel tanks, plus their light airframes, helps the P-38 kill them with one pass.

Historically, the P-38's ability to climb to considerably higher altitudes (~44k feet for the P-38L, vs. ~35,000 feet for the Zero and the Ki-43) than the Japanese also helped. The Americans could usually attack from above.

In game, guess that means "try to drag the fight upstairs" if that's possible, since the P-38 has the sustained climbing power to do it. At some point, a plane like the A6M5 or the Ki-43-III is going to wallowing due to the high altitude.

Other than that, the P-38 really is a "thinking man's airplane." Moreso than other fighters, even other BnZ fighters, you have to plan each attack in advance - from ingress to exit. Sometimes, that can be a real PITA, especially if you're learning, and especially against a maneuverable foe who can "jam" your attacks with clever maneuvers.

Go offline and start hunting AI Ki-43-IIIs, Ki-27s or A5Ms. Their relative lack of armament makes them much safe to engage than any other Japanese planes, while their twisty, windy ways will drive you nuts as you try to attack them.

[majorfailure]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

Other than that, the P-38 really is a "thinking man's airplane." Moreso than other fighters, even other BnZ fighters, you have to plan each attack in advance - from ingress to exit. Sometimes, that can be a real PITA, especially if you're learning, and especially against a maneuverable foe who can "jam" your attacks with clever maneuvers.

Absolutely - for a beginner I would recommend a P-40 against Japanese early-mid war planes. Your speed advantage is not as good as in a P-38. You can make your roll rate count though, and it is a really capable energy fighting plane. If you enter the fight with an altitude advantage you are nearly intouchable. Just don't turn and burn, keep the fight vertical, use your roll rate to change direction, if you see your advantage degrade, exit, climb back and re-enter. If all else fails, split-S one or even two times, maybe even with a slight change of direction at the exit, and run.

[Jumoschwanz]

It does not matter what you fly, if you are used to your airplane and have more experience than the other guy then you will shoot him down. If he has more experience or is more used to his aircraft than you, then he will shoot you down.

The only disadvantage a P-38 has in general is that it is a large, easy to hit and fragile aircraft. It has great acceleration and speed and it also turns and rolls well.

One thing you can do is to start flying hard settings, this evens the playing field a lot over flying arcade settings because it lets you use historical tactics and gives you the historically accurate element of surprise. Others will have to ID you and your aircraft before they attack, they will not know what it is as soon and will not see it as soon because it does not have a large colored arrow and ID information attached to it.

I have had great success in P-38s in every kind of combat, z&b and slow "dogfighting", but it had a lot more to do with tactics and the hard settings I was flying, and my experience than with the aircraft type.

[majorfailure]

Originally Posted by Jumoschwanz

It does not matter what you fly, if you are used to your airplane and have more experience than the other guy then you will shoot him down. If he has more experience or is more used to his aircraft than you, then he will shoot you down.

I know my example is not fair, but: Tommy McGuire would still live if your statement were true.

Originally Posted by Jumoschwanz

The only disadvantage a P-38 has in general is that it is a large, easy to hit and fragile aircraft. It has great acceleration and speed and it also turns and rolls well.

It does not roll well, which is IMHO its greatest disadvantage - especially against planes like 190. Okay I'm biased here, IMHO roll rate (basically negating any turn advantage the enemy may have against you) is the second most important trait of fighters, speed advantage beeing the first(allowing you to enter and exit a fight at will). And a speed advantage can also be obtained by a plane with higher altitude, same is true for exiting fights, if you can dive like hell, you may also escape in the theoretically slower plane. This is why I would pick a P-39/P-40 any day against Japanese opposition - except maybe for late war.

Originally Posted by Jumoschwanz

I have had great success in P-38s in every kind of combat, z&b and slow "dogfighting", but it had a lot more to do with tactics and the hard settings I was flying, and my experience than with the aircraft type.

I think with similar experience in a P-40 or a P-39 you would have been as sucessful.
And for a beginner a plane that has "only" the speed advantage +excellent accelleration+favourable high speed climb is not easy. What the beginner may not be aware of is that against Japanese opposition the P-38 is an excellent choice to survive in -and you get quite some margin for errors other planes, e. g. F4F/P-40 do not have. The P-39 in the real world was a troublesome plane for novice pilots - and it may well be in IL-2, too. Though in the hands of a better pilot it is fearsome against Japanese planes, great roll rate, useful turn rate, speed advantage, armament that is overkill against fighters, and still capable of shooting down multiple bombers - if they appear at medium/low alt.