Damage model is rubbish!

[Lord-Tuinboy]

I thought the damage model looks great ? But why on earth don't your wheels come of at high speeds ?

Well atleast you can play I'm still waiting for another 3 weeks for my xbox to return from the grave

[sod16]

Originally Posted by Riceball

C'mon. That's funny.

Again idiocity, you've ran out of things to say so you like to cherry pick... How long did that take you to find and fine tune? I dont care ok stop posting pointless stuff here, at least everyone else is saying something interesting.

[sod16]

Originally Posted by trk29

Anton did say that they actually persuaded the publisher to let them put the sim mode in the game. It almost didn't make it in to the game.

Have you people not notist how crap arcade flight games are? In terms of REVIEWS alone, most of them get craptastic scores because they are boring, say if il 2 was to sell a lot, then there might be future compatition.

[sod16]

Originally Posted by butterfield

This is a really good post in defense of IL2 for the console.. but I also understand where sod16 is coming and would like to state this in his defense:

I've played IL2 on the PC for a good 5 years now. When I first heard it was being handed over to a third party for release on the 360/ps3 I was very skeptical. I thought, "How can this even be possible given a controller with buttons I can count on 2 hands? ...and would console users even want to get into the level of depth known as IL2?"

Then the trailers started appearing on the net and I was instantly in love. I thought "WOW.... this is IL2 1946 with a bad@ss graphical overhaul!!!... I watched the trailers over and over and over.....

Demo day arrives and I felt like a 10 year old on Christmas! I went into the demo knowing things like the engine "management" would be non existant. There would be no prop pitch/air fuel mixture/or in flight supercharger adjustments. There would be no manifold pressure or engine damage due too overheating ...and you know what? I was just perfectly fine with that. After all this is a game console not a flight trainer. I knew that the real bread and butter of the IL2 experience boiled down to 3 areas:
the dogfighting, knowing the strengths and weakness of each plane in a combat situation, and lastly .....the awesome damage model Oleg implemented almost 10 years ago.

Sadly area #3 is horribly diluted. Part of what made IL2 such a good experience was the unknown. Entering combat was the enemy flak going to destroy a flap? was a bf-109 cannon shell going to blow off my rudder? Would a round unluckily pierce a fuel tank causing me to crash land over enemy territory. If I ditched was my landing gear going to extend or was it going to be a belly landing? Well heck if I have to belly land I better find some flat ground or it's all over!!! You see this is whats sadly missing from BOP. So much fun was too be had just trying to ditch a plane and surviving.

Now you just get instant "hollywood" explosions when your wingtip rubs the grass.

I know Anton stated that this is a flight sim not a crash simulator.... but why remove the crash aspect and dumb down the damage engine when it was already there too begin with???,,,it doesn't hurt the playability of the game on the console or confuse the masses that play console games...it only completes the awesomeness that is IL2 ,,,and I surely know that the 360/ps3 can handle ALL of this if my old P3 700mhz did 5 years ago.

Maybe it was "we ran out of time" problem with the publisher.... I don't know but it is sorely missed.

Plus If the damage is restored to its original PC state and a replay editor is included we can have BOP videos like this --->

I totally agree with everything you've said.

[sod16]

Originally Posted by thundermuffin

Your arrogance is deceiving you. And fine, forget what I said about sales (again would like to see your marketing/economist credentials to make such a claim) and forget what I said about console to PC comparisons. If you really want to attack my comment w/o ACTUALLY addressing the statement itself, fine, be a child.

But know this: The console crowd is more focused and, with limited releases compared to PC, their attention is easily swayed. Concessions must be made to please them. EVERY SINGLE write up of this game I have read has boasted about how this is the perfect blend of game for an arcade console audience while still giving enough gravy for the hardcore. So complaining about G-Fore deformation is falling on deaf ears. If you want those features, play the earlier versions of the game.

And about Burnout: Paradise... where are you getting your numbers... because that claim is both ludicrous and idiotic... For example: Forza 2 in the month of June 2007 debuted at #6 and eventually moved into the 5 spot selling 500,000 copies... Burnout was in 1st for both consoles in January 2008 and is continuing to sell AMAZINGLY given their after release support.

All of this is off topic, I know, but you brought the fight to me with your sheer arrogance.

I knew arrogance was going to come into this, but you know, what can you do... Look it does not matter, i like burnout paradise because its smooth, i also love forza 2. You know what though, forza is brilliant at being a simulator (well getting better), burnout is a famous series which was exremely fun to play with friends online. Flight sims on the other hand are known to be quiet boring and not well done such as blazing angels. Those fat 50 year old men in charge of everything are too blind to notist that even a 12 year old likes the idea of realistic, and that if this was a sucess (3 million copies or more) it might go two ways, either the publisher is too blind to notice its the simulation thats selling it, so they bug them to make it more fake and more like eurofighter physics on meth, or for a second release they might boast about more realistic features. We'l have to see.. My personal opinion is that it might not fly off the shelves because people think its another "boring crappy blazing angels thats too hard to play or too easy to play".

[Antinko1]

Thanks for the warm welcome. I agree with Butterfield to a large extent and I would love to see the damage model be as complex as it is in the PC version of the game; however, I don't think it's too much of a big deal when it boils down to it.

I'd rather take a slightly 'dumbed down' damage model and great 'everything else' over super accurate damage and empty game lobbies. I don't wish to sound too hyperbolic but my point is that I don't think that the (God I sound like a snob here) 'masses' will appreciate simulation like we do. The majority of XBOX Live players I know simply like to plug and play*. IL-2 BoP's learning curve is still going to be steep to a player who is used to arcade style flying games and I doubt that they'll stick around very long to appreciate the nuances of having individual aelerons shot off!

So I think it's a matter of give and take. 1C are breaking into a new market and they have to attract new players whilst remaining as loyal as they can to their current player based. I think that they're doing mostly everything right and I'm certainly going to be more forgiving since this is their first attempt. This game certainly beats the living daylights out of H.A.W.X, Blazing Angels and that new one which is coming out which looks rubbish...Heroes over Europe.

*I may be wrong when it comes to applying my perspective to a wider context: I'm just writing from experience and I've only been exposed to what probably is a small percentage of XBOX Live players.

[H Lecter]

Originally Posted by sod16

too blind to notist that even a 12 year old likes the idea of realistic

Yup. When I was 12 I played Microprose's (what an awesome company, I miss them!) Gunship on Commodore C64. I was amazed by the level of detail and invested a lot of time into learning how to do an autorotation landing and understanding the different weapon systems of my helicopter and the opposing enemy forces.

Maybe this is different today. Or wait, actually it's not. The reason why console players are playing dumb games is that they hardly get anything else.

IL-2 tries at least to go into a different direction and if the success proves that they were right we may see a sequel that will hopefully include also a more complex damage model like in the original PC game.

Give the publishers a bit of time to see that their decision to go down the sim route was right

[butterfield]

Originally Posted by H Lecter

Yup. When I was 12 I played Microprose's (what an awesome company, I miss them!) Gunship on Commodore C64. I was amazed by the level of detail and invested a lot of time into learning how to do an autorotation landing and understanding the different weapon systems of my helicopter and the opposing enemy forces.

Maybe this is different today. Or wait, actually it's not. The reason why console players are playing dumb games is that they hardly get anything else.

IL-2 tries at least to go into a different direction and if the success proves that they were right we may see a sequel that will hopefully include also a more complex damage model like in the original PC game.

Give the publishers a bit of time to see that their decision to go down the sim route was right

I remember Gunship on my Amiga 500! For me though the start was flight simulator 1 or 2 on the Apple IIe when I was like 8.... I remember being instantly hooked just sitting on the runway trying to figure out how to take off. Anyway, I was amazed by like you said "the level of detail". Most kids are not stupid and like a realistic game/sim that immerses them.

[sod16]

Originally Posted by butterfield

I remember Gunship on my Amiga 500! For me though the start was flight simulator 1 or 2 on the Apple IIe when I was like 8.... I remember being instantly hooked just sitting on the runway trying to figure out how to take off. Anyway, I was amazed by like you said "the level of detail". Most kids are not stupid and like a realistic game/sim that immerses them.

Publishers are to stupid to know that everyone likes a bit of realistic, they think it wont sell, they are taking the wii approach.

[IamKFAM]

ummmm all the way to the bank. Publishers publish what sells. Instead of telling them they are dumb for selling things. Work on your fellow gamers.
It will work better.

To put it another way:

If everyone is buying turd sammiches...

Soon everyone will be selling turd sammiches.

Tell everyone to stop buying it. Make mine a Ham and Swiss with amazingly detailed holes coded in.