Adding new maps: Which one would be the most useful?

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by IceFire

The other thing I want to bring up is the role of the dogfight map. We currently have a few very usable small scale maps that we re-use over and over again on dogfight servers. Some of the new maps work brilliantly for online and others are more challenging or less useful.

What makes a good Dogfight map, then?

My impression is that most of the Dogfight maps are way too small. While they've got interesting tactical setups and, in some cases, interesting terrain, I've notice that a running dogfight will quickly take players far away from the "fun" areas.

Additionally, the fact that the opposing teams' starting airfields are practically (or literally) in sight of each other just invites the sort of realistic behavior that online players hate - strafing and bombing enemy airfields to destroy planes on the ground and attacking planes that are taking off or trying to land.

Ideally, I think that any dogfight map should be about 20 miles/33 km square, with plenty of "interesting" terrain, such as mountains or islands, in between, and with airfields placed so that no team is at a disadvantage.

Boundaries for "protected zones" around airfields - where activities such as strafing, bombing, "vulching" heavily disadvantaged enemies, and "camping" are prohibited - should be clearly marked.

Practically, each team's airfield could automatically be protected by intensive curtains of light and heavy flak, since that was the real and effective way to protect airfields. Also, the risk of getting shot down by ground fire is a lot more obvious and self-enforcing to players who are inclined to break the conventions of online etiquette than being kicked off the server.

Strong flak curtains surrounding each team's airfield would also encourage lots of ground attack missions prior to "capturing" that team's base by landing aircraft or dropping paratroopers on it.

Based on those ideas, I'd like to see versions of the "Net Mountains" map that are much bigger and where the same map is set in different climates, both to provide different air temperatures and as "eye candy" to help immersiveness if the mission is restricted to a certain plane set. For example, the same map textured as jungle, desert, temperate or Arctic terrain.

I'd also like to see variants of the "Net Islands" map (the one with 8 islands around a central island) textured in the same way, but with the perimeter islands set about 10 miles/15 Km from the central island, and about 5 miles/8 km from any other island. The central island could also be turned into a mountain rather than being flat, making the map more interesting.

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

What makes a good Dogfight map, then?

My impression is that most of the Dogfight maps are way too small. While they've got interesting tactical setups and, in some cases, interesting terrain, I've notice that a running dogfight will quickly take players far away from the "fun" areas.

Additionally, the fact that the opposing teams' starting airfields are practically (or literally) in sight of each other just invites the sort of realistic behavior that online players hate - strafing and bombing enemy airfields to destroy planes on the ground and attacking planes that are taking off or trying to land.

Ideally, I think that any dogfight map should be about 20 miles/33 km square, with plenty of "interesting" terrain, such as mountains or islands, in between, and with airfields placed so that no team is at a disadvantage.

Boundaries for "protected zones" around airfields - where activities such as strafing, bombing, "vulching" heavily disadvantaged enemies, and "camping" are prohibited - should be clearly marked.

Practically, each team's airfield could automatically be protected by intensive curtains of light and heavy flak, since that was the real and effective way to protect airfields. Also, the risk of getting shot down by ground fire is a lot more obvious and self-enforcing to players who are inclined to break the conventions of online etiquette than being kicked off the server.

Strong flak curtains surrounding each team's airfield would also encourage lots of ground attack missions prior to "capturing" that team's base by landing aircraft or dropping paratroopers on it.

Based on those ideas, I'd like to see versions of the "Net Mountains" map that are much bigger and where the same map is set in different climates, both to provide different air temperatures and as "eye candy" to help immersiveness if the mission is restricted to a certain plane set. For example, the same map textured as jungle, desert, temperate or Arctic terrain.

I'd also like to see variants of the "Net Islands" map (the one with 8 islands around a central island) textured in the same way, but with the perimeter islands set about 10 miles/15 Km from the central island, and about 5 miles/8 km from any other island. The central island could also be turned into a mountain rather than being flat, making the map more interesting.

Different ideas of what a dogfight map are then I guess. My thinking is along the lines of Dogfight1 or 2 where the zone is a small scale version of other maps. I think those are 90x90km but I'd rather see something a little larger at 120x120km with sets for perhaps generic "Asia dogfight" or "Europe dogfight" or maybe even a "Channel dogfight" type setups.

Some servers will setup the scenarios so there is no more than 10km between bases. Others will go for a larger setup. BF1 missions I design are setup so that time to target is roughly 5 minutes and time between opposing bases is about 10 minutes. Everything is setup roughly in a diamond shape... you typically find the fighters clashing between bases in the center of the diamond and bombers from either time attacking targets on the outside. Conscious decisions have to be made to escort or defend targets that way.

So any map I'd want to see added as a dogfight generic would need to have enough scale to be useful in that way but also have some bases close enough to accommodate the folks who want very quick action.

There's also the Italy online map which is fairly large and detailed but immensely useful.

I'm not sure of the answer here exactly but I am thinking hard about the variables. The problem being that even small maps take a lot of time to create.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by IceFire

Different ideas of what a dogfight map are then I guess. My thinking is along the lines of Dogfight1 or 2 where the zone is a small scale version of other maps. I think those are 90x90km but I'd rather see something a little larger at 120x120km with sets for perhaps generic "Asia dogfight" or "Europe dogfight" or maybe even a "Channel dogfight" type setups.

So, basically maps that have some portion of the world scaled down by 5:1 or 10:1, with minimal roads and towns?

It seems like there is demand for three different sorts of maps, 1:1 very detailed maps for authenticity nuts, 1:2 to 1:5 scale "theater" maps to simulate "long range" missions, but with fewer roads and towns, and 1:10 or higher scale "dogfight theater" maps that compress an entire theater into a small area, with even fewer roads and towns.

[IceFire]

Yep. It could save some time if those folks finished their maps for official release.

[majorfailure]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

It seems like there is demand for three different sorts of maps, 1:1 very detailed maps for authenticity nuts, 1:2 to 1:5 scale "theater" maps to simulate "long range" missions, but with fewer roads and towns, and 1:10 or higher scale "dogfight theater" maps that compress an entire theater into a small area, with even fewer roads and towns.

I don't know, is there really a need for a dogfight theater map in 1:10 or such?

Proposal for a dogfight map:
Iasi Map, area north and east of and including Iasi.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by majorfailure

I don't know, is there really a need for a dogfight theater map in 1:10 or such?

I have no idea. Someone should make one and see how popular it is. I'd find it a bit weird myself but different strokes for different folks.

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by majorfailure

I don't know, is there really a need for a dogfight theater map in 1:10 or such?

Proposal for a dogfight map:
Iasi Map, area north and east of and including Iasi.

Iasi is a dogfight server version of the Bessarabia map. The only difference is that there is a smaller area with cities, towns, and other objects inside of it (as marked by the box).

And yes the area around Iasi works quite well. I built a scenario for that a few years ago when the map became available to us. It really is quite useful.

As for a 1:10 type setup... I'm not sure. I think I'd rather pick a small piece of 1:1 area and use that more generically as the original team had done.

[ElAurens]

I've used Bessarabia as a China stand in, it's a good map and a lot better than many of the early generic DF maps.

[cambaz]

An English Channel map will be superb for dog fighting with Spits and 109 adding some British Shores or Dover like places will be good.

[majorfailure]

Originally Posted by IceFire

Iasi is a dogfight server version of the Bessarabia map. The only difference is that there is a smaller area with cities, towns, and other objects inside of it (as marked by the box).

And yes the area around Iasi works quite well. I built a scenario for that a few years ago when the map became available to us. It really is quite useful.

If that IS already the dogfight map, then we need more dogfight maps -I always thought of 10-80x10-80 maps as dogfight maps.
And yes the Iasi map is nice. Enough airfields distributed nearly even about the map, lots of connecting roads, fine looking textures.

As for dogfight maps - it may be worth looking at maps already in the game and adding fictional airfields in positions to make them dogfight-usable.