4.13 development update discussion and feedback

[mark_009_vn]

Originally Posted by majorfailure

Are you sure it is low speed turn fighting? AI F4Fs do turn fighting vs. A6M, but at speeds where an A6M has trouble following because of the increasing control stiffness. They use their roll advantage a lot - at high speeds the Zero's roll rate is strongly reduced- and as Aces usually they best you if you try to follow - if you ever enter a rolling scissors maneuvre with an AI Ace F4F at speeds above ~400kph -you are already dead.

Well I fight high and slow (if that makes sense to you...), so 400 is the maximum speed I usually get mid combat since the Sakae doesn't accelerate well pass this point... In reality the AI are more then gladly to cut throttle, set take-off flaps, and deliberately bleed E in order to turn fight at even slower speeds... AI particularly love to bleed E in rolling maneuvers, they almost always chop throttle and open full flaps to cause an overshoot... this might work against a P-38, but against the Zero, a masterful piece of art in quick acceleration and deceleration..................

The main strength of the Zero is rapid acceleration, quick climb, and control sensitivity in said climb (perfect combination for a spiraling climb)... So as soon as Hellcats/Wildcats/Corsairs made any attempt to turn fight at ANY speed, the Zero (players and AI alike) can easily gain altitude and E advantage... This means AI Hellcats are much underprivileged because their AI patterns are not capitalizing the advantages of the in game Hellcat... This is a problem from the original game as well...

It is not uncommon for Rookie AI Zeros to score a favorable kill ratio against Ace AI Corsairs, even though Zeros were supposed to be inferior in both plane and skills... In reality, against people well flown Hellcats and Corsairs preys upon Zeros.

This makes it particularly tough for me as a person who enjoys offline custom missions to recreate the sense of futility of struggle of real life Zero pilots. Especially if one can kill Hellcats and Corsairs in droves...

In contrast, I've once fought FW-190s in the stock Blinding Sun campaign and the experience has been exceptional, the 4.07 AI was smart enough to keep E and avoid turn-fighting my Yak... The LW creates a sense of absolute dominance in the campaign, which is exactly the kind of experience the campaign makers are trying to deliver... Unless AIs are correctly tuned to use American Navy planes correctly, many custom made campaigns for the game are not expressed to the fullest...

(Note: I haven't tested to see how 4.12 AI handles the FW much... They still seem to obliterate me pretty well, but I felt the difficulty fighting them is reduced... or is that simply because my skills have improved?)

[majorfailure]

Originally Posted by mark_009_vn

Well I fight high and slow (if that makes sense to you...), so 400 is the maximum speed I usually get mid combat since the Sakae doesn't accelerate well pass this point... In reality the AI are more then gladly to cut throttle, set take-off flaps, and deliberately bleed E in order to turn fight at even slower speeds... AI particularly love to bleed E in rolling maneuvers, they almost always chop throttle and open full flaps to cause an overshoot... this might work against a P-38, but against the Zero, a masterful piece of art in quick acceleration and deceleration..................

Okay then it may very well be that our different fighting styles influence the AI's behaviour, usually I fight in a Zero as fast as the plane allows, and I live with the unresponsive controls, its not stellar but it makes sure noone sneaks in behind me.
I've tried the slower fighting, it becomes the Zero well - BUT the AI is so darned clever in teamwork, and their wingmen/second element/flight most of the times keep their E advantage, and if I follow them, I usually get my kill at the cost of an AI in perfect position to strike. If the AI tries rolling scissors on me, I just zoom past and above them - or when there is ample seperation to the other AI I try to cut across their pattern.

Originally Posted by mark_009_vn

The main strength of the Zero is rapid acceleration, quick climb, and control sensitivity in said climb (perfect combination for a spiraling climb)... So as soon as Hellcats/Wildcats/Corsairs made any attempt to turn fight at ANY speed, the Zero (players and AI alike) can easily gain altitude and E advantage... This means AI Hellcats are much underprivileged because their AI patterns are not capitalizing the advantages of the in game Hellcat... This is a problem from the original game as well...

Yes the spiral climb works pretty good, and when the AI are directly below, pounce on them, and get back up.

Originally Posted by mark_009_vn

It is not uncommon for Rookie AI Zeros to score a favorable kill ratio against Ace AI Corsairs, even though Zeros were supposed to be inferior in both plane and skills... In reality, against people well flown Hellcats and Corsairs preys upon Zeros.
This makes it particularly tough for me as a person who enjoys offline custom missions to recreate the sense of futility of struggle of real life Zero pilots. Especially if one can kill Hellcats and Corsairs in droves...

There seems to be a pattern there, and it is the AI are not good at using faster planes against slower ones. It happens sometimes that AI Ace Zeros get caught by co-E F4Fs, for no reason at all. And I've seen quite more good AI Bf109 F/G getting shot down by P-40s or even Hurris then I'd think should have.
Though I must say, generally in the all AI F4F vs. A6M duels the more experienced side wins.

[pandacat]

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this. Here are a few things that I would love to see in 4.13:

1. Please add 2nd crew member to TBD, TBF-1c, TBM-3. Currently only TBF1 has 2nd crew member and can use level bombing sight and ventral gunner.
2. Please add a radio command that you can use to order your wingman to RTB. Currently you can order the whole flight to RTB, not individual wingmen. Also, would it be possible to make your wingman to RTB when you request permission to land? Because currently if you land, your wingman will follow you until got too low and slow and crash without any reason.

[SPAD-1949]

Lately played some older early war missions.

There is no clear procedure for the SPB.
The I-16 must not have further waypoints then the one after the disengagement waypoint. If you want them to fly home after their mission, the stay fixed to the TBM, even if it is shot down.

Even the disengagement has no clear rules.
Sometimes they dont disengage, whatever you do with the missionbuilder. Sometimes they do, even if you follow the same mission building procedures.

They should automatically disengage when the TBM is attacked.

Oh yes, and even the rookie I-16 has godlike deflection shooting skills.
If you've got one on your back, you should have had a good ammount of energy advantage or you are dead within some seconds. You can only sacrifie your wingman and run.
They turn on a penny, they accelerate like hell, climb like there is no tomorrow and shoot rather accurately. They usually kill you when you try to outrun or outclimb them at ranges of around 700m, Ace AI does that at 1K with one short burst.

Or is it real that you have a 15:1 disadvantage in a E4 against them.

[SaQSoN]

Originally Posted by pandacat

1. Please add 2nd crew member to TBD, TBF-1c, TBM-3. Currently only TBF1 has 2nd crew member and can use level bombing sight and ventral gunner.

This planes are not flyable and never will be. If you are talking about mods, please, contact the mod author. Why do you posting this in the DT thread?

[shelby]

Yesss another wish comes

[Jami]

[QUOTE=SPAD-1949;512442]
Oh yes, and even the rookie I-16 has godlike deflection shooting skills.
If you've got one on your back, you should have had a good ammount of energy advantage or you are dead within some seconds. You can only sacrifie your wingman and run.
They turn on a penny, they accelerate like hell, climb like there is no tomorrow and shoot rather accurately. They usually kill you when you try to outrun or outclimb them at ranges of around 700m, Ace AI does that at 1K with one short burst.
QUOTE]

Yes, this should be corrected as soon as possible. It makes no sense to use I-16s in missions any more because they are unreal overwhelming. There is a big difference between 4.11 and 4.12. I really hope that DT will downgrade to 4.11 in this case - and check other planes, too.

[Furio]

The B24 is a masterpiece!

[Pursuivant]

Congratulations to the B-24 design team!

Now all we need is for someone to model the other 5 crew stations needed for the B-17!

[majorfailure]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

Congratulations to the B-24 design team!

Now all we need is for someone to model the other 5 crew stations needed for the B-17!

Don't get greedy.

Can't wait to fly the B-24. Finally an allied heavy with a decent bombsight. Great work and thanks to the team that made the cockpits&stations for this beauty.