one good aspect off all this, 1c kept the CoD engine and did not transfer it to RoF

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by Lurker_71

And, if you're having trouble understanding what I mean by their "blocking the genre's progress," here is a tip: MG's presence in the WW2 sim segment with their formidable repute scared off potential competitors. Now that it is obvious MG was not up to the task, chances are we will be seeing several developers showing up to fill the void (777 being one obviously and perhaps Eagle Dynamics). And that is why I am and you too should be happy that MG is out of the way, that is if you're a WW2 sim fan. They wasted 6 years for the genre. That's how I see it.

I don't know about that.. Perhaps the success of IL2 itself was a factor to a degree in keeping developers away because in spite of what it lacked it did so many things well but I don't think competitors were scared off by MG. I think that the lack of flight sims till recently had more to do with the fact that it is a niche market ... Not everyone is into flight sims .. and the majority of gamers who like other things from role playing games to FPS just do not have the patience or the interest to dive into a flight sim. Now PC technology is catching up sop that improvements on what IL2 did can be done easier with less outlay. Most of the people who appreciate flight sims are older and they also appreciate aviation .. and history.. and the market had been dominated by 1CMG for so long because the product was just that good and most of the people who are into that sort of thing are a very vocal, demanding lot and would have expected something at least on par with IL2. Look at Gaijin.. for all it's shortcomings WoP was not a bad piece of SW.. but they cut so many corners making it that they couldn't even "fix it" .. they had to redo it.. and we now have WT.. and just look at all the cries of "too arcade" "not a real sim" and "ok for gamers but.." that we see all over the community..

Personally I would have preferred for the sequel to IL2 to have remained in 1CMG hands and been released within a year of when it was originally scheduled.. even if it was not as good on some levels as CoD as long as it wasn't as bad on the levels that CoD was terrible when it was released.. including from a marketing stand point.. and was an improvement on the greatness that is IL2.. I and I am sure many others would have been happy..but that is not what happened and MG is no longer in existence but I don't think the competition was so much intimidated as they were not willing to go to the lengths that 1CMG did ... because they didn't have to. MS dropped out of the flight sim market... and this after pushing FSX as as real as it gets.. and then they pulled the rug.. because it is a very demanding market where you can only take so many take shortcuts .. because the community will notice and they will tell you.. and post all kinds of negative stuff on retail sites that you will need to sell your product ..

I think that the edge that 1C777 has in all this is that they know the market.. and they know what they can skimp on and what they can't and one thing that the demise of CoD proved beyond a shadow of a doubt is that you just can't do everything.. but there are certain tings that must be done right for an effective flight sim.. CoD tried to do everything right.. and it failed.. I cannot prove this so to a large degree it is moot.. but I can almost guarantee that if CoD had been released as basically IL2 1946.. with 2048x2048 skins with alphas (ala WoP) , a MDS a few more planes and objects and some of the features that have been done in the mods.. a few that have already been incorporated into 4.11.1 and are promised for 4.12 .. like WS support, 6DoF, axii for multi engined AC, axii for other controls in single engined AC like radiator and mix on a slider.. and some other functional feature type mods.. The thing would have sold like wild fire and they would still be in business. They could have copied the RoF model on all the planes in the sim that were not flyable and they would have been sucessful.. but the sim got hacked and that was that.. As much as I enjoy mods I can't help but wonder if this is partly chickens coming home to roost because if the sim had still been locked they could have done some od this stuff and made a profit to an extent and remained in business.. perhaps. We will never know. The fact that they gave away so much stuff free.. which only served to foster a spoiled, ungrateful petulant, vociferously vocal community and drain the resources, financial and personel of the company for bigger and better things didn't help either.

Hopefully 1C777 will learn from the mistakes of all the companies mentioned and come up with a product worthy of the titale of being a successor to IL2.. Currently neither RoF nor CoD are it.

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

Hopefully 1C777 will learn from the mistakes of all the companies mentioned and come up with a product worthy of the titale of being a successor to IL2.. Currently neither RoF nor CoD are it.

nope !

for the simple reason that this new project by 1c and teflon jason is not deisgned to produce the best ww2 flightsim that is possible to create, its main purpose is to make money, and be as profitable as possible for them in doing so

it has nothing to do with creating quality ww2 flightsim product for hardcore simulation freaks.

1c has already stated as much at the outset of them agreeing to fund 777's next project ("1c likes the sales model and revenue generated"), and 777 has already shown this to be the case in its own track record in their sales model and indicating it will be their old ww1 game engine reskinned with a few new ww2 planes and a new map. after that you'll pay for every single future addon object/item, and the 1c reps are already salivating at the thought of it

[Feathered_IV]

That's the problem with young people these days. They have such an overblown sense of entitlement, they expect it all to be handed to them on a plate.

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by Feathered_IV

That's the problem with young people these days. They have such an overblown sense of entitlement, they expect it all to be handed to them on a plate.

like all your bitching and moaning here for the last 2 years you mean ?

just apply your equal level of expectation to what the new 777 ww2 sim is going to be, and you will see it is by its very design going to be something much much less then what we currently already have in CoD

and remember that even after CoD was patched recently and it greatly improved, you personally didnt change your swan song of whining and kept cheering on trolls like tree

oooo but i see, you'r going to set different standards now for the new 777 project and then pretend the end product is the same thing ?

[WTE_Galway]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

but I can almost guarantee that if CoD had been released as basically IL2 1946.. with 2048x2048 skins with alphas (ala WoP) , a MDS a few more planes and objects and some of the features that have been done in the mods.. a few that have already been incorporated into 4.11.1 and are promised for 4.12 .. like WS support, 6DoF, axii for multi engined AC, axii for other controls in single engined AC like radiator and mix on a slider.. and some other functional feature type mods.. The thing would have sold like wild fire and they would still be in business. They could have copied the RoF model on all the planes in the sim that were not flyable and they would have been sucessful.. but the sim got hacked and that was that.. As much as I enjoy mods I can't help but wonder if this is partly chickens coming home to roost because if the sim had still been locked they could have done some od this stuff and made a profit to an extent and remained in business.. perhaps.

+1 this be very true

[Feathered_IV]

Originally Posted by zapatista

just apply your equal level of expectation to what the new 777 ww2 sim is going to be, and you will see it is by its very design going to be something much much less then what we currently already have in CoD

I'm fine with that. I also am fine with paying a fair price for additional content.
Out of curiosity, what does your comment "Teflon Jason" mean? You've used it a few times now in a disparaging sort of way but I'm unsure of context.

[bzc3lk]

Originally Posted by zapatista

like all your bitching and moaning here for the last 2 years you mean ?

Oh, the irony!

Originally Posted by zapatista

oooo but i see, you'r going to set different standards now for the new 777 project and then pretend the end product is the same thing ?

[Fjordmonkey]

Originally Posted by zapatista

nope !

for the simple reason that this new project by 1c and teflon jason is not deisgned to produce the best ww2 flightsim that is possible to create, its main purpose is to make money, and be as profitable as possible for them in doing so

it has nothing to do with creating quality ww2 flightsim product for hardcore simulation freaks.

1c has already stated as much at the outset of them agreeing to fund 777's next project ("1c likes the sales model and revenue generated"), and 777 has already shown this to be the case in its own track record in their sales model and indicating it will be their old ww1 game engine reskinned with a few new ww2 planes and a new map. after that you'll pay for every single future addon object/item, and the 1c reps are already salivating at the thought of it

Most if not all software-companies has the focus on making money on their products. Hell, if you laid down 3+ years of work into a product that you're going to sell to others, wouldn't you want some return on your investment?

Sorry, Zappy'Ol'Chap, you're getting more and more silly in your knee-jerk responses wherever 777 is involved than what I see daily in the Apple/Android-wars.

[Wolf_Rider]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

The fact that they gave away so much stuff free.. which only served to foster a spoiled, ungrateful petulant, vociferously vocal community and drain the resources, financial and personel of the company for bigger and better things didn't help either.

meanwhile... others charge for the privilege (take a look at RoF fans when they're away from home )

[Fjordmonkey]

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider

meanwhile... others charge for the privilege (take a look at RoF fans when they're away from home )

That might be, but at least their product actually works pretty well, and their business-model secures continuation of the project. Can you say the same about CLoD?