BoM: Wonder if they'll model the poor Soviet Plexiglass?

[Flanker35M]

S!

I've read Russian memoirs and they all follow same theme: We shot down Germans with words and writings on our planes, we struck them down with pure awesomeness! Give me a break Russians did not admit their losses at all in many cases, evidence found in their archives, mostly they were "technical problems". I would say they had some very talented pilots like Golybev or Pokryshkin leading a mass of medicore pilots + almost endless reserves and insane supply of planes. Germans could not win a war of attrition against that.

Anyways I would not expect the flaws and poor workmanship being reflected in the sequel, on either side. Will be interesting to see how it turns out. Gonna get the sequel for sure just to support combat sims.

[vranac]

Originally Posted by *Buzzsaw*

Salute

With all due respect to the sacrifice of many Russian and other Soviet nationality lives, this as an example of inflexible Soviet tactical doctrine, (from Stalin) requiring pilots to stay and fight when a better situation would be to disengage and return later, is just one reason why the Soviet losses were so huge. (they admitted losing 60,000 planes, claimed 80,000 Germans, but German loss figures were about 15,000)

Requiring Fighters to load rockets and bombs, and sending them in at low altitudes, the whole lack of a high altitude air superiority fighter, meant the Germans were default given complete dominance up high, as well as the initiative and the ability to make attacks when and where they chose, all of this led to the losses, and the creation of the high scoring East Front Luftwaffe Aces.

In the first years on the Eastern front Red Army had to stop agression with any means and at any cost.
My country was also attacked in april 1941. with more then 10:1 in the air and pilots were taking off, attacking the enemy even heavily outnumberd,
geting shot down but taking off again until there was no more planes.

Did RAF pilots disengaged when they defended their country even outnubered tryin to stop enemy bomber formation.?
Don't think so.
LW sent their pilots on practically suicide missions to attack bombers which were very well covered at the end of the war.

You don't have that luxury when you are defending your country.

And just one more point regarding numbers VVS confirmed downed planes only if ground crew find the remains of the planes even when guncams were introduced.It was the case in Korea also.
LW confirmed kills on witneses and guncam recordings.

Sorry for the off.

[JG52Krupi]

Originally Posted by vranac

In the first years on the Eastern front Red Army had to stop agression with any means and at any cost.
My country was also attacked in april 1941. with more then 10:1 in the air and pilots were taking off, attacking the enemy even heavily outnumberd,
geting shot down but taking off again until there was no more planes.

Did RAF pilots disengaged when they defended their country even outnubered tryin to stop enemy bomber formation.?
Don't think so.
LW sent their pilots on practically suicide missions to attack bombers which were very well covered at the end of the war.

You don't have that luxury when you are defending your country.

And just one more point regarding numbers VVS confirmed downed planes only if ground crew find the remains of the planes even when guncams were introduced.It was the case in Korea also.
LW confirmed kills on witneses and guncam recordings.

Sorry for the off.

+1

[*Buzzsaw*]

Originally Posted by vranac

In the first years on the Eastern front Red Army had to stop agression with any means and at any cost.
My country was also attacked in april 1941. with more then 10:1 in the air and pilots were taking off, attacking the enemy even heavily outnumberd,
geting shot down but taking off again until there was no more planes.

Did RAF pilots disengaged when they defended their country even outnubered tryin to stop enemy bomber formation.?
Don't think so.
LW sent their pilots on practically suicide missions to attack bombers which were very well covered at the end of the war.

You don't have that luxury when you are defending your country.

And just one more point regarding numbers VVS confirmed downed planes only if ground crew find the remains of the planes even when guncams were introduced.It was the case in Korea also.
LW confirmed kills on witneses and guncam recordings.

Sorry for the off.

Salute Vranac

I have the utmost respect for all the Russian/Ukrainian/Belorussian, etc. people who sacrificed their lives in the Second World War. (Great Patriotic War for Soviets)

There is no question the efforts of the Soviets were the country most responsible for the defeat of the Nazis, more Germans died on the East Front, there was never less than 60% of the Wehrmacht committed to the East Front at any time, sometimes the figure was as high as 80%. The Battles at Moscow, Stalingrad and Kursk were decisive events of WWII. (along with the Battle of Britain)

However, it is also clear that the policies of Stalin and his officials and Commanders were often poorly thought through and counterproductive. This led to the unnecessary sacrifice of many, including many pilots and aircraft of the VVS.

The committment of Soviet aircraft and pilots to blind and foolish attacks in the early days of the war decimated the VVS. Pilots of all aircraft types were ordered to load up bombs and simply head for the front, without any kind of serious planning or tactics in mind. The same thing was happening on the ground, with Soviet divisions being sent in headlong suicidal attacks against enveloping German Panzer forces, when withdrawals to prepared defensive positions would have provided a much better defence of the country.

The Soviets had 20,000 aircraft available in 1941 compared to 5,000 German and Axis Allied. Although many of those Soviet aircraft were obsolescent biplanes, the numbers were such that they could have provided more opposition. Instead, huge numbers were destroyed on the ground because Stalin forbade any show of preparing for war, many were parked wingtip to wingtip on the ground when the German bombers came over as dawn was breaking on June 22nd 1941. After the initial surprise attack, Stalin ordered immediate attack by all available aircraft. By that time, most of the remaining aircraft had to be brought up from storage areas, and were often obsolete types. Anyone disagreeing or showing any signs of hesitation, even for simple planning, was threatened with being shot. Huge numbers of the pool of experienced Soviet pre-war pilots were killed by being sent off in obsolete planes on missions which were either poorly planned or not planned at all. Planes such as the I-15 and I-16, which were quite maneuverable in fighter loadout, were loaded up with bombs and rockets, and told to attack anything they came across. In their unmaneuverable state they were slaughtered in their hundreds by the German 109's.

These kinds of policies by the Commanders of the VVS, under the supervision of Stalin were ultimately very destructive. The Soviet VVS almost did not recover. If it was not for Lendlease aircraft, there would not have been enough planes in 1942, this was the reason Soviet pilots had to fly the Hurricanes and Tomahawks.

Effective use of the VVS did not start until late in 1942, and even in the last days of the war, many costly errors continued to be made due to the interference of Stalin and Communist officials.

You mention the fighting efforts of the RAF in the Battle of Britain. With all due respect, the situation and result was very different.

The RAF was well prepared, with Radar and early warning systems coordinating aircraft and pilots. There was no surprise, and the RAF won the Battle of Britain decisively, shooting down far more German planes than they lost despite being outnumbered more than two to one. They did this because their leaders did not foolishly send them headlong into battle, RAF controllers moved their Squadrons to engage enemy bombers, avoided enemy fighter sweeps whenever possible, and planned their attacks.