Spit/109 sea level speed comparisons in 1.08 beta patch

[JtD]

I just recalled I still have my near three year old turn performance estimate spreadsheet. I attached it, so anyone interested can produce charts to their likings. I've added some 109 E and Spitfire I data, feel free to use your own data sets. If you have any questions, just ask.

[Kurfürst]

Originally Posted by JtD

I just recalled I still have my near three year old turn performance estimate spreadsheet. I attached it, so anyone interested can produce charts to their likings. I've added some 109 E and Spitfire I data, feel free to use your own data sets. If you have any questions, just ask.

Thanks, this is very usuful.

I fooled around with the specs a bit, with best/worst case data in bost cases, but interestingly the tables keep showing that the 109E is evening things out in turn and then having an advantage at and above around 400 km/h.

Math is just too impartial I guess.

[JtD]

The only way to change that would be using 100 octane performance for the Spitfire I, giving it a level speed similar to the 109. Or go to high altitude, were Spitfire and 109 are always fairly close in terms of speed. Other than that, 30ish extra km/h is quite a bit.

[Kurfürst]

Originally Posted by JtD

The only way to change that would be using 100 octane performance for the Spitfire I, giving it a level speed similar to the 109. Or go to high altitude, were Spitfire and 109 are always fairly close in terms of speed. Other than that, 30ish extra km/h is quite a bit.

Agreed! 100 octane is giving a Spit roughly equal speed at low level, even greater speed at low-medium altitudes, which governs most of the high speed turning stuff. Apart from that, without 100 octane the Spit is a bit of trouble against the 109E at higher speeds, since the latter is faster at low altitudes, and in the end its speed that govers most of the high speed turning stuff (since parasitic drag is much more dominant there). Its simply how the turning formulae works, something that some of spit fanatics simply do not want to accept.

Higher altitudes would be interesting btw. The Spit has a more power there (save for the 109E/N) and the two aircraft about the same speed. The Spit has less wingloading, the 109 has higher AR - thus the main factors governing turning are going both ways.. my guess would be a slight Spit advantage there though (save again for the 109E/N).

Bottomline, it doesn't matter how good the plane can turn, if the pilot can't fly it right through the edge. 1-2 seconds can be generally made up by good piloting skills, both ways.

[Crumpp]

Kurfurst says

but interestingly the tables keep showing that the 109E is evening things out in turn and then having an advantage at and above around 400 km/h.

When you calculate out the performance, it is easy to see why Mtt defaulted the trim to 400kph.

That is a very good speed to dogfight the airplane.

[Crumpp]

Crumpp Spitfire calculation

LOL, you do know I was on the FM team for Warbirds at the time. The first FM done was the Spitfire Mk I and Bf-109E series.

When you combined the performance with the flying qualities, these two airplanes are the most evenly matched close quarter dogfighter that existed, IMHO.

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

When you calculate out the performance, it is easy to see why Mtt defaulted the trim to 400kph.

That is a very good speed to dogfight the airplane.

Doghfight at 400kph in 1940. Very good

How exactly would you outturn a Spitfire in a combat again?

[Crumpp]

Doghfight at 400kph in 1940

Why do you think it would be so difficult to dogfight at 400 kph in an airplane?

Have you flown many airplanes?

Do you know how easy it is to hold a design speed?