Spit/109 sea level speed comparisons in 1.08 beta patch

[bongodriver]

See attachment for Spit IX. The Spit IX was an excellent turner and runs circles around the 262 at lower speeds. Come 500 kph, and the Spit is simply running out of thrust, can hardly turn at all

So are you suggesting aircraft can't turn without thrust?......so every glider I have seen change direction is purely my imagination?

surely you really mean to say the Spitfire will simply loose some ground, but it will without doubt still be able to turn.........some of these theories are getting bizarre.

[Crumpp]

Crumpp, can you advise the source of your graph data? Cheers.

It is a spreadsheet that calculates turn performance I made.

It is a sophisticated analytical tool that determines relative turn performance using standard incompressible flow theory. That was the predominate theory in use during WWII and is the same one used by the RAE.

By using EAS, all you have to adjust power production and you are in the ballpark for the Indicated Airspeed you should see performance.

I did it that way so it would be useful for the game. If you know the PEC, it is not hard to have the spreadsheet convert EAS to IAS directly.

It takes a little time but it can reworked for any aircraft.

[Crumpp]

So are you suggesting aircraft can't turn without thrust?......so every glider I have seen change direction is purely my imagination?

Now we have to teach people the basics.

Aircraft cannot sustain performance without excess thrust and the forces in balance.

Any airplane without excess thrust can use gravity and momentum to achieve instantenous performance.

A glider uses gravity to propel itself which is why we don't use them on transatlantic flights. They exist in a purely instantenous performance condition. They cannot sustain performance under the power of gravity alone and must constantly trade altitude for airspeed without an alternate form of energy.

Gliders seek an alternate form of energy in the form of rising air currents to stay aloft.

Flying a sailplane is probably the closest thing any human will come to feeling like a bird. Powered only by gravity and air currents, these gliders move silently through the sky, often for hours at a time.

http://www.mansfieldct.org/Schools/M...ightglider.htm

Bongodriver, try to make a turn from maximum level speed in an airplane maintaining both airspeed and altitude.

[Crumpp]

better climbrate but not necessarily better turnrate in typical combat situations.

The readers understand that a better climb rate is indicative of more excess thrust?

Once again, the Spitfire shines in lift limited performance while the Bf-109 shines in thrust limited performance.

[Crumpp]

this isnt all bad for the spit tho as this can be used so the plane behind overshoots and misses, i.e turning inside his turn so he cant get guns on you. puts you out of the fight but also keeps you alive, at least a while.
a 109 couldnt do this to a spit, this is why you go into a fight with a 109 always with higher energy or dont bother at all, so you can afford to loose that speed.

Any airplane can do this to another airplane.

[bongodriver]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

Now we have to teach people the basics.

Aircraft cannot sustain performance without excess thrust and the forces in balance.

Any airplane without excess thrust can use gravity and momentum to achieve instantenous performance.

A glider uses gravity to propel itself which is why we don't use them on transatlantic flights. They exist in a purely instantenous performance condition. They cannot sustain performance under the power of gravity alone and must constantly trade altitude for airspeed without an alternate form of energy.

Gliders seek an alternate form of energy in the form of rising air currents to stay aloft.



http://www.mansfieldct.org/Schools/M...ightglider.htm

Bongodriver, try to make a turn from maximum level speed in an airplane maintaining both airspeed and altitude.

Read macros reply to my post and learn how to actually process information.

[Crumpp]

[bongodriver]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

Youre confused?....ok I'll take you through it carefully

Kurfurst said of the Spit in his scenario 'can hardly turn at all'......but why would the aircraft suddenly not be able to turn any more?......it in fact will continue to turn quite happily, what it won't do is sustain speed.

[Crumpp]

As my 6 year old would say, I am confused on who is whose friend, LOL.

[IvanK]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

It is a spreadsheet that calculates turn performance I made.

It is a sophisticated analytical tool that determines relative turn performance using standard incompressible flow theory. That was the predominate theory in use during WWII and is the same one used by the RAE.

By using EAS, all you have to adjust power production and you are in the ballpark for the Indicated Airspeed you should see performance.

I did it that way so it would be useful for the game. If you know the PEC, it is not hard to have the spreadsheet convert EAS to IAS directly.

It takes a little time but it can reworked for any aircraft.

But your graph Crumpp bears little resemblance to the RAE chart. Your chart gives the 109 a better sustained capability whilst the RAE chart gives the Spitfire a better sustained turn performance ?

RAE Chart from AVIA 6/2394



Crumpp chart:


Dont see any parameters/conditions/assumptions used on your chart either Crumpp

Who is right RAE or Crumpp ?