Stability and Control characteristics of the Early Mark Spitfires

[Sandstone]

Originally Posted by robtek

In most planes it was nearly impossible for the pilot to reach the structural limit without trim, not so in the Spitfire, there it was comparatively easy to do that.

If it was "comparatively easy to do", how is it that almost no pilots ever did it, even given the rushed training available in WWII?

[robtek]

Originally Posted by Sandstone

If it was "comparatively easy to do", how is it that almost no pilots ever did it, even given the rushed training available in WWII?

The pilots did read the pilots notes for their machines

No, actually the overwhelming majority of those pilots had a sound survival instinct, lots of feedback from their bodys and their rides,
and, last but not least, some didn't dare to fly their aircraft so close to the edge that they were outperformed by technically lesser able planes with better pilots.

[NZtyphoon]

Originally Posted by robtek

The pilots did read the pilots notes for their machines

No, actually the overwhelming majority of those pilots had a sound survival instinct, lots of feedback from their bodys and their rides,
and, last but not least, some didn't dare to fly their aircraft so close to the edge that they were outperformed by technically lesser able planes with better pilots.

This is techno-speak to say that there are very few examples of Spitfires actually breaking up in accord with the Pilot's Notes and Robtek's beliefs about what a dangerous aircraft it was: in real life the Spitfire gave plenty of warning of an impending stall, as noted by NACA, and few actually encountered the theoretical extreme conditions noted by the PNs.

[TomcatViP]

Originally Posted by Glider

Actually it wasn't that easy to reach the limit and lose the wing, if it was, more would have crashed. There was an issue later in the war with the wings bending and some reinforcement was introduced but that was

A, B, C, D, E ... it makes 5 different wing design. All with strengthening or correcting some aero issues. I don't see how you can write that Glider. And note that at the end the late E wing shape was far from being Elliptical.

Such as saying that out of 22000 built only 121 crashed when your source explain clearly that the study was only about some Spits that had crashed on Britain soil and which causes were investigated.

[CaptainDoggles]

Originally Posted by NZtyphoon

Nope, I have nothing to do with red or blue - just pointing out that if Robtek wants to be consistent about aircraft control characteristics in IL2 replicating real life then there are lots of WW2 aircraft which had a problem with their handling.

Yeah, there are lots. But this thread is about the Spitfire. You just "randomly chose" the 190, I'm sure.

Not because it was a German aircraft gimme a break.

[Crumpp]

Keep the thread on topic and stop with the "red vs blue" baloney.

[FS~Phat]

Ditto.... getting the picture gents?????

[FS~Phat]

Thread open again.. gents please stay civil. Next time several of you will incur 5 point general infractions or worse if you cant keep it from getting personal.

[NZtyphoon]

Originally Posted by CaptainDoggles

Yeah, there are lots. But this thread is about the Spitfire. You just "randomly chose" the 190, I'm sure.

Not because it was a German aircraft gimme a break.

As far as I can tell there are no rules against citing German aircraft as an example of potentially deadly flight characteristics - FYI four books I have bought in the last few months are on the Do 335, the Ar 234 the Bf 110/Me 210 and 410 series and the JG26 war diaries pt 1, so attempting to claim anti-German bias on my part is a waste of time.

Back to the Spitfire - with all the claims being made that early marks of the Spitfire had bad longitudinal stability how did this show itself in real life? Apart from a set of pilot's notes and a NACA report, stating that it did not meet certain criteria, how much evidence exists of pilots complaining that they were nearly killed by a sudden, dangerous stall leading to a spin while pulling up in a tight turn? Are there any reports from Luftwaffe pilots stating that a Spitfire they had bounced lost its wings while trying to escape? Is there anything proving that Spitfires were destroyed between 1939 and 1941 because of bad longitudinal stability?

[ATAG_Dutch]

Originally Posted by FS~Phat

Thread open again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKXEmXB7h3E