German Flak Organization

[HenFre]

@schilla22: The 8,8 cm Flakbatterie is from 1943 and based on the way the army has organised the unit. Here is a link:

http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn17111nov43.htm

There should not be a significant difference between the units of 1943 and 1940 from what I have been able to find on the internet.

The 2 cm Flakbatterie is based on the Luftwaffes own organisation and this is how it looked in august 1940. Here is another link:

http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn2201lw1aug40.html

Looking forward to seeing the info you have

[schilla22]

I found a web site tons of TO&Es. However its like finding a needle in a hay stack (over 8 hours and only up to about 1942). Still haven't located much information on Flak Regiments, or Heavy Flak Battalions etc. So cannot give any information on 8,8 cm Flak units.

Your info is spot on via that site for Gliederung according to a recently found Equipment list for that specific unit. Also found a later war list for 1944.

I found a PDF "Organization of the Motorized Flak Battalions
10 May 1940" (google search that and you should find it, if not can prob email or PM it)

There are 2 different types of Battalions listed. The first is almost the same as Gliederung. Except that a few misc vehicles are missing or added. But there are 3 Platoons of 4 guns, instead of 4 with 3 guns.

This is for the following Flak Battalions: 31st /46th /47/48/52/55/59/66

The 2nd Example is roughly 3 times larger. In this Battalion there are 3-4 Companies of 3 Platoons, each with 4 guns.

This template applies to 601st through 606th Flak Battalions.

You have me extremely interested in this subject matter. And thinking about doing a few diagrams myself similar to yours for the FMB community if you don't mind. Currently looking into motorized and armor divisions.

[HenFre]

@schilla22: The Flak unit described in the PDF has the Flak on Halftracks like this:

http://albumwar2.com/images/stories/...fz.%2010.4.jpg

So it is a motorised unit, which I suppose are used to support the panzerbattalions.

The unit that I have in my post is a towed Flak like this:

http://ww2db.com/images/weapon_flak38_16.jpg

But maybe the organisation of the 2 cm Flak batterie was changed in august of 1940, hence the new KSTN?? Could be that the change was in the number of platoons and the number of guns in each platoon.

Where have you found tons of KSTN? Same site as I am referring to?

Looking forward to seeing your diagrams and what you dig up

[schilla22]

Ok, after probably a solid 16+ hours of looking through the George Nafziger collection of Orders of Battle, via U.S. Army Combined Arms Research Library, I just now found a website that you can bulk download all of the PDFs.

http://www.alternatewars.com/CARL/Nafgizer_CARL.htm

And there's an index for German Authorized Strengths (Regiments, Battalions, Companies, Platoons etc), from 1941-1945, for a huge variety of unit types.

Here is an Index Page from a separate website:
http://home.fuse.net/nafziger/TOE.HTM

As you can see, there are also thousands of other files for other Countries, of which I have yet to even look through. (next on my list is Great Britain)

The Coding works as follows:
944GQAG
944 = Year of the Document, not always 100% accurate but close. This one representing 1944
G = Country of Origin. This one being Germany. Others like F = France, B = Britain etc.
QAG = Unknown, have yet to really decipher these.

This File 944GQAG specifically represents: German Army Authorized Strength - Staff, Horse Drawn 20mm Flak Battalion - 1 November 1944.

There are at least 2 files in the 938-940 years for Germany concerning Flak Authorized Strength. One of them is 940GXMG However I cannot recall the other one at this moment.


From what I can tell, up until 1944, all Flak Battalions were Motorized, unless if they were Garrison Units (fixed emplacements around strategic targets or cities) 943GQDR and 943GQDS. Of which it looks that these units have less # of Vehicles than the others. I assume that they would borrow vehicles, or get vehicles from other units to transport to new positions.

Also I think the key to Flak units, is that they needed to be highly mobile to protect Key Assets, like what HenFre said, Panzer divisions etc.

Its not until 1944 and after, that you start seeing TO&Es of Flak units that are only partially Motorized, or Horse drawn. Here I'll assume that for obvious reasons of production, and air superiority by the Allies made Motor Transport almost non existent.

When you get to looking into Divisions and their Attachment Units, you'll see either just 1 Battalion attached, or Single or Multiple Companies/Batteries (2,3,or 4 guns). So basically These units when it comes to size, and vehicles in those units can be totally random and based on Individual Unit TO&E's. There isn't much of a level of standardization.

I hope to work on some Diagrams similar to HenFre's this weekend, and if I learn how to actual Scripts. But at the moment I'm totally Brain Fried

[HenFre]

@schilla22: Thank you for the links schilla Lots of great information. Which units do you plan to make diagrams for? I will also be making some and it would be stupid to do the same ones

I think the main difference between my 2 cm Flak unit and the ones mentioned in your links is, that yours are for the army and mine is for the Luftwaffe. Can you confirm that your KSTN's (TO&E's) are for the army?

[schilla22]

@ HenFre Right now I'm shuffling through these files to come to a proper determination of when the Army started creating their own Flak units. It was always to my assumption that the Army didnt start doing this till around 1942 when they started meeting more opposition on the Western Front from the Russian Air Force. And when stronger production started on the actual Mechanized Flak units, aka mounted Half Tracks.

The project I'm working on at the moment is an actual Map (via workable area of France and Britain in CLOD) of stationed Flak units in France in 1940 and early 1941. There is one File (can't remember coded number at the moment) of giving specific locations of Battalions in France and Belgium. Then using some books to determine the British Defense.

Some of the KSTN's are for the Luftwaffe, but finding them is difficult. I will make a choice later today as of which units I will Choose. Probably choose an Army 1940 motorized divisions / battalion / company strength later today.

[csThor]

Between Army and Luftwaffe flak units there's a considerable difference - also time-wise. The Army had own Flak units (almost exclusively motorized companies) as early as 1940 but none of them had anything larger than a 3,7cm Flak 18/36. Until 1942 only the Luftwaffe operated the 8,8cm Flak - only then the Army set up its own Flak battalions with the Achtacht (usually two platoons with 4 guns each and another two or three light/medium platoons).