3D Cliffs Of Dover Pictures

[raaaid]

Originally Posted by Ailantd

Raaaid, now seriously, you have to tell your parents take you to the doctor.

i wonder i need a doctor cause i PONDER( i give it a 1% chance) that the wolrd is satged which would imply a good nature of the universe sincehooror would be fake

this is called a consistent thought, seems bizarre but makes sense

now youre pretty much CONVINCED of the media horror and at the same time, like nearly everybody believe in the good nature of the universe

this is called something patently false since its contradictory

so do you realize you like most is convinced of something patently false while have the face to call the doctor when a guy expresses with honesty?

i guess if i had said the first women came from the first man rib i wouldnt need a doctor

well check the symtoms of delusion and tell me which i full fill since you first threw the stone:

the psychiatrist and philosopher Karl Jaspers was the first to define the three main criteria for a belief to be considered delusional in his 1913 book General Psychopathology.[2] These criteria are:
certainty (held with absolute conviction)
incorrigibility (not changeable by compelling counterargument or proof to the contrary)
impossibility or falsity of content (implausible, bizarre or patently untrue)

[Les]

Originally Posted by raaaid

can you do this with the game?

Tilt shift lenses can recreate that sense of scale in 2D, do a Google search for 'tilt shift lens video' and you'll find some examples.

In regards to seeing the proper scale of clouds and things in-game, that can be experienced by projecting the game at 1:1 scale onto a large screen. I never realized how massive the clouds in the game actually are until I saw that.

And, for what it's worth Raaid, I too have seen the kind of movie-like 3D effect in real life that you're describing. And yes, I've even seen it while playing IL2 (!!!). But, so what, it's no big deal. It just requires some concentration and a shift in perception, to notice something in real life we usually just take for granted, and to allow your senses to be more thoroughly tricked by the illusion of three dimensional space being depicted in a game (or picture). It's a trivial thing really, but some people can do it and some people can't, so you have to be careful. I think it's just as ridiculous for those who can do it to say it's something mystical or other-worldy as it is for those who can't do it to say it's impossible.

The senses are easily tricked, into perceiving things that aren't there and into not perceiving things that are there (most people would be surprised).

Anyway...too much OT now for me.

[raaaid]

yes i just dont like to be call crazy for expressing for honesty

i hate that real world attitude of having to look normal when everybody has bizarre thoughts who they silence

yes i withdraw my saying my perception like in a 3d movie its unique

as a matter of fact im begining to learn to control it:

if i look normal i see flat as i have done all my life

but if cross my eyes VERY SLIGHTLY WITHOUT LOSING THE FOCUS i achieve a more 3d perception the more i cross the eyes before seeing doeuble moment the perception is gone

this is wrong:

"Stereopsis or retinal (binocular) disparity - Animals that have their eyes placed frontally can also use information derived from the different projection of objects onto each retina to judge depth. By using two images of the same scene obtained from slightly different angles, it is possible to triangulate the distance to an object with a high degree of accuracy"

stereopsis is an illusion actually, a construction of the mind, retines are actually flat

if you see this double as the other images \ / they cant be geometrically overimposed yet your brain does an I with depth appearance, no triangulation

edit:


wow thanks this can not explain:



edit

and i insist:

you know when you drive you see the verticals bars of the car double when looking far away

verify your self, so what i say you can see that makes sense, that with an artificial 3d perception(actually a real 3d perception) you dont see vertical bars double when looking faraway:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9E9H...layer_embedded

what do you have to say at this?

[Ailantd]

Originally Posted by raaaid

i visit regularly the doctor

you dont undesrtand:

in a game stereoscopic cockpit you dont see bars double when you look far away but in real life you do

explain me that

then you cant bring down my staged world by blind colour alien hypothesis

In fact I do, I see double bars in stereoscopic images when focusing the far landscape.

[raaaid]

strange i dont

probably les is right about people having different perceptions

for example maybe where you see blue i see red but we just happen to agree in the name of the colour but not its perception

i wonder do you percieve depth here, youre expected to percieve it:

[Ailantd]

Raaaid...
I´m going to ask you to do one little experiment. So, please, try this:
Run the sim, if possible in a wide screen. Close one of your eyes and try to fit the visual screen to cover all you visual field, or at least, as much as you can while capable of focus the image. Also try to center your non stereoscopic point of view in the center of the image.
Then, with track Ir or mouse, start moving a bit the point of view. Better if you displace the view plus rotate it. Try this for a few seconds and then tell me what do you see.

There are various ways to feel deph and stereoscopic is not the only one. Real stereoscopy is the only way to feel realistic deph when no other information is provided or memoriced by the brain. But the 3D feel is in fact created by the brain, and the brain can recreate it with only one source image IF it have all the other neccesary information to do that. In this case that information become from image movement and your previous knowledge of the cockpit and how the perspective works ( the brain "know" all this ). So the brain can reconstruct the sense of deeph. And doing this you can feel the 3D even without seeing double the objects that are out of focus. I know not every people can see this effect with only one eye, but I see it as well as I do crossing the eyes with two images. BUT is a fake sense of deph and if you try to play ( or drive a car ) that way you are going to miss a lot of targets ( or hitting a lot of other cars ) because bad calculations. Is like the brain filling the dead spot of our vision. Appears to be real, but is not. If you put some small object in that spot, that object will vanish completely.

Now, when we are talking about real deph feeling builded by the brain trough two images, the sense of scale becomes certainly from eyes separation and image sizes as I posted before in this threat. Where I used to work we had a cave ( I´m a 3d modeler and I was modeling 3d enviroments for that thing ), wich is a big cube where all faces are screens and where you enter with a steresocopic glasses and a fully head tracking. In the screens you project sterescopic images calculated from your actual point of view inside the cube. This way, with the correct space between eyes rendering, and the fully size and scale of the image, the sense of being there is absolutely real and fully credible. It´s an amazing experience. I literally could enter and walk my 3d enviroments and after a while you can forguet that was only a fake image and tryed to touch everything and avoid colision with objects.

The problem with 3D video games or cinema is that they lack the possibility of project a fully realistic scale image from the point of view of the user, so you get weird 3D effects, usualy exaggerated. Otherway raaid, the sensation is fully real and no different in ANY WAY from the real thing.

Edit:
I have found a cave photo in google, I post just as curiosity. The one I worked on was very similar to this:

[raaaid]

"The problem with 3D video games or cinema is that they lack the possibility of project a fully realistic scale image from the point of view of the user, so you get weird 3D effects, usualy exaggerated. Otherway raaid, the sensation is fully real and no different in ANY WAY from the real thing."

youre wrong:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3-eiid-Uw

in words of a hollywood expert:

"our intention is to make stereoscopic images so perfect you cant tell 3d as you cant tell in real life"

now you think im crazy for pondering tv is such 3d so the blind colour angels can see it

then how do you explain my having watch on tv a frozen defective image like this at least two times?



im just consequent with my observations without minding to follow the herd, do you really think that makes me crazy?

[Ailantd]

You still have not tell me what you see doing the experiment I ask you to do.

That video does not proof nothing: What that thing does is just the same thing trak-Ir does in our sim, but with the wii and with a model that increase the sensation. Nothing more. There is no stereoscopic sense there, only a virtual camera movement from the relative head point of view. The only diference is that the wii traking have a very wide angle and you can walk far away from the screen while still working. The rest of the sensation is provided by movement and reconstructed by the brain in the same faked way that when you see with only one eye.

Originally Posted by raaaid

in words of a hollywood expert:

"our intention is to make stereoscopic images so perfect you cant tell 3d as you cant tell in real life"

Yeah, and all washing machine soaps are the best, we know.
In cinema is even more evident that in videogames world, that unless they remove the screen and provide you with fully stero glasses that cover all your field of view projecting the right scale stereoscopic images, that statement "you cant tell 3d as you cant tell in real life" is not going to happen, ever. Only one people in the cinema can be in the real relative position from the shot was taken. All the other people brains had to handle the perspective distortion of the screen. Brain is good to do that things and it does, but the sesation is, and is going to be, sligly different than the real stereoscopic world, while they can´t match all viewing parameters, like a cave does.

Originally Posted by raaaid

now you think im crazy for pondering tv is such 3d so the blind colour angels can see it

then how do you explain my having watch on tv a frozen defective image like this at least two times?

And here I have to admit, that not being english my natural languaje, and even using google traslator, I have not a clue what you want to say.

[raaaid]

yes showing the right image in movies can only work for one person

but in games there just one person

what johny lee does is match the fov of the game and the fov that the screen takes from your eyes

on this way however distance to the screen your always wacthing the "right" image perspective

that is NOT just 6dof its a WINDOW effect

the problem is that nobody sems to understand that but a very few

[Ailantd]

Originally Posted by raaaid

yes showing the right image in movies can only work for one person

but in games there just one person

what johny lee does is match the fov of the game and the fov that the screen takes from your eyes

on this way however distance to the screen your always wacthing the "right" image perspective

that is NOT just 6dof its a WINDOW effect

the problem is that nobody sems to understand that but a very few

It IS a 6dof with the right camera movement to simulate a window. In fact I think it only follow displacement, and not rotation... whatever.
I have lot of years of experience in 3D and sterescopy and I had tryed that myself. I know pretty well what it does, and while interesting it has nothing related to stereoscopy.


In games there is only one person, BUT the screen size still lacks the fitting to the real thing scale, and that is a requirement to have the realistic sensation.
Again, when real full field of view stereo glasses arrive, then we are going to have amazing experiences in videogames and movies with stereo. Before that... unless you have a surface to stereo project in big size with a nice tracking... we don´t.

I mean, you could try to simulate a realistic projecton in the screen size, like if the screen were a real window, but this has several main problems. First is the edges of the image where the ilusion would break, using trakIr scaled rotation would kill the effect also. But the more important, you would need to play with a zoom that would made the game completely unplayable. So if you want stereo games in a screen today, you have to play like if objects were small models and not real size items.