Poll: Interactive Cockpits

[Supah]

Originally Posted by proton45

Their has been some speculation here about M$ modifying their "flight sim" code into a "Flight combat sim", but I just don't see it happening... Adding bombs or machine guns is one thing but I just don't see how they could (write in) modify their code to include a complex "damage engine"... people complain about "IL2's" shortcomings and people complain about how the "Il2" engine was stretched beyond its original design, can you imagine what a M$ "flight combat sim" would be like if it was built on a modified "flight sim" engine? It would be a joke!

For all you know that code might allready be in there Besides MS has a lot of resources committed to FSX, more then Oleg has on BOB. I think oleg will mis out on a lot of sales if he sticks to this road. But oh well, more developers have come and gone due to strange decisions.

[ElAurens]

Well, if Micro$oft's track record with combat flight sims is any indicator, Oleg has nothing to worry about.

They had all the resources in the world at their disposal, and still managed to release that steaming pile called CFS3.

Also, the MS architechture of open "air files" won't go over well with onliners in any case. It will be just like CFS2 again. Skys full of supersonic, aimbotted WW2 aircraft.

Been there, done that, never again.

[Supah]

Originally Posted by ElAurens

Well, if Micro$oft's track record with combat flight sims is any indicator, Oleg has nothing to worry about.

They had all the resources in the world at their disposal, and still managed to release that steaming pile called CFS3.

Also, the MS architechture of open "air files" won't go over well with onliners in any case. It will be just like CFS2 again. Skys full of supersonic, aimbotted WW2 aircraft.

Been there, done that, never again.

If Microsoft comes out with a combat version of FSX I would rather give it a serious try before judging it.

[csThor]

a) SoW is first and foremost a military flight simulation. Maddox Games doesn't need to reinvent the wheel with it - they have a fundament both of experiences and technical solutions laid with Il-2 as well as input from the community and other "external sources".
b) Oleg doesn't need to cater to the civilian pilots in detail, because Maddox Games sure won't be able to do it all on its own. They will give external developers an interface to work with as well as tools to create/import the stuff they make. But that's about it - Maddox Games is a small company and needs to concentrate on the core business (if anything they have an issue with spending ressources on useless projects in the military part) and can't be spit-polishing the ground for the 3rd Party Projects.
c) The simulation aspect of civil and military flight sims couldn't be more different. Civil simmers are - IMO - procedure simmers first and foremost while "us" military types like to shoot holes into each other's planes. That's a drastic difference and sets completely different envelopes for the basic engine. I'd prefer Oleg did the military part right and doesn't try to be the jack of all trades. Because such is also the master of none.

Bottom line - clickable cockpits are a waste of time for a combat sim. If the SoW engine allows for 3rd Party Devs to add them for their own A/C then that is the maximum of what we can expect.

[Supah]

Originally Posted by csThor

a) SoW is first and foremost a military flight simulation. Maddox Games doesn't need to reinvent the wheel with it - they have a fundament both of experiences and technical solutions laid with Il-2 as well as input from the community and other "external sources".
b) Oleg doesn't need to cater to the civilian pilots in detail, because Maddox Games sure won't be able to do it all on its own. They will give external developers an interface to work with as well as tools to create/import the stuff they make. But that's about it - Maddox Games is a small company and needs to concentrate on the core business (if anything they have an issue with spending ressources on useless projects in the military part) and can't be spit-polishing the ground for the 3rd Party Projects.
c) The simulation aspect of civil and military flight sims couldn't be more different. Civil simmers are - IMO - procedure simmers first and foremost while "us" military types like to shoot holes into each other's planes. That's a drastic difference and sets completely different envelopes for the basic engine. I'd prefer Oleg did the military part right and doesn't try to be the jack of all trades. Because such is also the master of none.

Bottom line - clickable cockpits are a waste of time for a combat sim. If the SoW engine allows for 3rd Party Devs to add them for their own A/C then that is the maximum of what we can expect.

How on gods green earth do these points lead to the conclusion that clickable cockpits are a waste of time? There simply is no logic to your post if those are the conclusions. Civilian simmers are not procedure simmers at all, have you even tried FSX's new mission system? Or FS9's freeflight ? You can just power off down the runway just as easily without any planning as in IL2. The difference is that if you DO want to get serious you can in FS9 and FSX. You sound like you are basing you opinion on presumptions rather than actually trying the products.

[csThor]

The conclusion is that Maddox Games doesn't have the manpower to make clickable cockpits standard - especially because these are more of a gimmick than a real necessity. To me there are simply way more important issues - namely a decent offline campaign and an immersive GUI. It's a purely economic question and Maddox Games has proved to be "susceptible" to wasting precious ressources on sideshows.

I haven't spent any time in civil sims. My conclusions come from several visits to flight sim conventions. Of course that may have contorted the picture.

[Blackdog_kt]

Originally Posted by csThor

a) SoW is first and foremost a military flight simulation. Maddox Games doesn't need to reinvent the wheel with it - they have a fundament both of experiences and technical solutions laid with Il-2 as well as input from the community and other "external sources".
b) Oleg doesn't need to cater to the civilian pilots in detail, because Maddox Games sure won't be able to do it all on its own. They will give external developers an interface to work with as well as tools to create/import the stuff they make. But that's about it - Maddox Games is a small company and needs to concentrate on the core business (if anything they have an issue with spending ressources on useless projects in the military part) and can't be spit-polishing the ground for the 3rd Party Projects.
c) The simulation aspect of civil and military flight sims couldn't be more different. Civil simmers are - IMO - procedure simmers first and foremost while "us" military types like to shoot holes into each other's planes. That's a drastic difference and sets completely different envelopes for the basic engine. I'd prefer Oleg did the military part right and doesn't try to be the jack of all trades. Because such is also the master of none.

Bottom line - clickable cockpits are a waste of time for a combat sim. If the SoW engine allows for 3rd Party Devs to add them for their own A/C then that is the maximum of what we can expect.

I think the conclusion you are looking for is "dwelling too much on procedures like detailed engine startup is a waste of time".
Clickable cockpits are an extra control method (extra not primary).

In that regard, i certainly don't consider them any more waste of time than support for other control methods implemented in most sims today, like native TrackIR support and the ability to work with a wide array of HOTAS sets, gaming keypads and other peripherals that give you more options in how you interface with the game. The difference and the main reason i'm advocating clickpits is that not everyone can buy all those peripherals, but every PC comes with a mouse. Let's use it.

[csThor]

The problem with your approach is that you miss the essential flaw in your logic - for a single release (say "Release and be forgotten") clickpits might be a viable feature for a team as small as Maddox Games. However SoW is planned to encompass (hopefully) all theaters of WW2 air combat one day - and that means trainloads of different aircraft. Right now Maddox Games assumes production time for a single cockpit to be at around 6 months for an experienced modeller who knows the procedures and hurdles - add how much for a clickpit?

TIR or HOTAS support is essentially a "do-once" thing and does not need to be redone each time a new aircraft is introduced. Oleg said the fundament is there for a complete startup procedure and clickpits - Maddox Games just does not see these additions as econimically viable for them. I'd have liked full startups, but I do understand where MG is coming from so it's no dealbreaker for me.

[robtek]

I´d like to remark that NO clickpit and real complex engine- and flight- management don´t exclude each other.

[RockStar]

Originally Posted by Supah

If Microsoft comes out with a combat version of FSX I would rather give it a serious try before judging it.

Agreed. Combat FSX could be awesome. I know it would be in my shopping cart in spite of how bad cfs3 was.