lets make a stand on the supresion of binaural sound in the game

[IvanK]

I do disagree with your interpretation of Luthiers comment I know specifically on what occurred as I did the research. Luthiers comment in the thread you quote was:

"Replaced every tachometer in every British and Italian plane with an electrical type, since some people find needle movement on the mechanical type not what they expected." and not what you said:

"Look at the bouncing tachometer needle -- the authentic mechanical version before it got "dumbed down" to the steadier non-authentic electrical tach based on "fans' complaints"!

So it wasn't "dumbed down" based on "Fans complaint" .... but changed based on actual research. Luthiers comment regarding Electrical type was poorly worded (and discussed with him at the time) as the research indicated that direct drive Tachos (certainly on the Merlin) are steady and don't bounce as they were initially presented in the Sim.

No personal offence was meant by BS just a response to the "dumbed down" and "Fans complaint" comments as that I consider silly and wrong.

WRT to Tacho bounce IRL 3 current Spitfire pilots were spoken to and 2 engineers responsible for these aircraft were spoken too. The 3 Spitfires referred to in these discussions a MKVIII that was flown with RR Merlin with Direct drive Mechanical tacho. This aircraft was recently refitted with a Packard Merlin with Electrical Tacho. A Spitfire MKXVI fitted with Packard Merlin with Electrical tacho and Spit IXC powered by RR Merlin with Mechanical Direct Drive tacho. One of the pilots (current on both RR and Packard types) was actually shown a video of the original COD bouncing tacho to gauge his thoughts.... which in summary was he had never seen anything remotely like it.

What else concerns you Slipball that has been changed to an "Arcade level of presentation" ?

[ATAG_Snapper]

IvanK, thanks for the background on the mechanical/electrical tachometer topic. It's very interesting stuff and you have the advantage of first hand knowledge of what transpired which very few of us have. As for the "fans" and "dumbed down" issue which had you crying "BS"; Luthier makes frequent reference to Cliffs of Dover players as "fans" (I checked), and the "dumbed down" was my interpretation based on the little information we had been provided.

You may consider others' opinions "silly" and "wrong" based on having this information advantage -- good for you. But there's no need to be boorish about it. Just sayin'.

[Buchon]

Its nice that you have that kind of information source IvanK because you can help to make the most realistic simulation of a mechanical tachometer.

Guess that what you can do now is ask if what we have now looks like a mechanical tachometer, but in my opinion, that steady like a rock needle looks like a electrical tachometer than otherwise.

I agree that the mechanical tachometer in that video looks to soft and excessively inertia and G affected, looks in some how like a cord damaged tachometer, but I think that with the proper tuned down we can have the most awesome mechanical tachometer simulation.

Because mechanical tachometers are, in some grade, inertia affected and in a airplane G affected.

I remember the riot of the "bouncing needles" in the forum, you can find with a easy search people claiming funny things like that the mechanical tachometers was never installed in Merlins, that´s obviously not true, or that mechanical tachometers was never installed in cars, jeez even I had a motorcycle with mechanical tachometer.

All this in some how heated the debate and we lose the sigh.

But in the end we are looking for the same thing, that is the most awesome WWII airplanes simulation, so if we remember this we can find a way and some answers to reach the goal.

[Sternjaeger II]

the whole RPM counter issue is yet another example of Luthier's poor communication efforts..

The way it was modelled was wrong, his sarcastic comments were uncalled for IMHO, since they generated confusion on people that didn't know about the real thing and raised questions.

In a way I understand IvanK BS comment: it must be frustrating dealing constantly who people who know what's right and wrong, because that's what reality is like in their minds..

[ATAG_Snapper]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

the whole RPM counter issue is yet another example of Luthier's poor communication efforts..

The way it was modelled was wrong, his sarcastic comments were uncalled for IMHO, since they generated confusion on people that didn't know about the real thing and raised questions.

In a way I understand IvanK BS comment: it must be frustrating dealing constantly who people who know what's right and wrong, because that's what reality is like in their minds..

I'd be the first to admit his information is infinitely better than mine and most others here. Further to that, I appreciate that he took the time to fully explain what transpired behind the whole tachometer thing. It was the arrogant rudeness he chose to use that I objected to. How can anyone not think that calling BS on another -- a total stranger -- would not cause offence???

There's simply too much of that on this forum, IMHO.

[SlipBall]

Originally Posted by ATAG_Snapper

I'd be the first to admit his information is infinitely better than mine and most others here. Further to that, I appreciate that he took the time to fully explain what transpired behind the whole tachometer thing. It was the arrogant rudeness he chose to use that I objected to. How can anyone not think that calling BS on another -- a total stranger -- would not cause offence???

There's simply too much of that on this forum, IMHO.

I disagree...his whole presentation is based on hearsay and faded memories at best. Why do you think that the team would include oscillation of the needle?...were not many of them pilots giving advice? is it possible the team then took that too far.

[ATAG_Snapper]

Originally Posted by SlipBall

I disagree...his whole presentation is based on hearsay and faded memories at best. Why do you think that the team would include oscillation of the needle?...were not many of them pilots giving advice? is it possible the team then took that too far.

BS! ......j/k -- Figured we could use a good Friday/no update chuckle!

Personally, I don't know. Sounds like the mech tach's needle vibrated but wasn't rock steady like the elect tach modelled in CoD at present. But were these the same guys who reversed the mixture lever in the Spit, failed to animate the Spit's two trim controls, or placed a diesel truck engine in place of a Merlin in the engine compartment? (Just listen to a Spitfire fly by -- that ain't no Merlin going by!)

[IvanK]

Originally Posted by SlipBall

I disagree...his whole presentation is based on hearsay and faded memories at best. Why do you think that the team would include oscillation of the needle?...were not many of them pilots giving advice? is it possible the team then took that too far.

The pilots and engineers consulted are flying and maintaining these aircraft today. As I indicated in my previous post "WRT to Tacho bounce IRL 3 current Spitfire pilots were spoken to and 2 engineers responsible for these aircraft were spoken too." Two of the aircraft are flying in Australia and the third in New Zealand.

So the info is hardly hearsay or faded memories ...

[SlipBall]

Originally Posted by IvanK

I do disagree with your interpretation of Luthiers comment I know specifically on what occurred as I did the research. Luthiers comment in the thread you quote was:

"Replaced every tachometer in every British and Italian plane with an electrical type, since some people find needle movement on the mechanical type not what they expected." and not what you said:

"Look at the bouncing tachometer needle -- the authentic mechanical version before it got "dumbed down" to the steadier non-authentic electrical tach based on "fans' complaints"!

So it wasn't "dumbed down" based on "Fans complaint" .... but changed based on actual research. Luthiers comment regarding Electrical type was poorly worded (and discussed with him at the time) as the research indicated that direct drive Tachos (certainly on the Merlin) are steady and don't bounce as they were initially presented in the Sim.

No personal offence was meant by BS just a response to the "dumbed down" and "Fans complaint" comments as that I consider silly and wrong.

WRT to Tacho bounce IRL 3 current Spitfire pilots were spoken to and 2 engineers responsible for these aircraft were spoken too. The 3 Spitfires referred to in these discussions a MKVIII that was flown with RR Merlin with Direct drive Mechanical tacho. This aircraft was recently refitted with a Packard Merlin with Electrical Tacho. A Spitfire MKXVI fitted with Packard Merlin with Electrical tacho and Spit IXC powered by RR Merlin with Mechanical Direct Drive tacho. One of the pilots (current on both RR and Packard types) was actually shown a video of the original COD bouncing tacho to gauge his thoughts.... which in summary was he had never seen anything remotely like it.

What else concerns you Slipball that has been changed to an "Arcade level of presentation" ?

I know that you were well intentioned with your project on the tachometer. I do agree that the fluctuations of the needle were over done, and needed tweaking. Are you really happy with the end result?...I own a vehicle with a mechanical tachometer, it is certainly not like the rock steady gauge that we have now. What we have is just like the electronic tachometer thats in my car.