'Red Tails' New WW2 movie coming out ;)

[bongodriver]

Hopefully Peter Jackson's new dam busters is better, at least he has a genuine interest in aviation!

I'm starting to feel that nothing will come of Dambusters, he is too distracted by making TinTin and Hobbit movies.

[335th_GRExandas]

Heinz Knoke was dodging 5 P47 for about an hour (only to escape)
bit that fear.

Tuskegee airmen where very good only because they had racial issues.
They forced to prove things that days, just for the American society.

[Sternjaeger II]

Let's not forget this is a film about race pride set in a WW2 context, not an aviation film per se.. but anyway, I would give it a shot and see what it's like, although I find this race card thing a bit of a cliché at times if not played correctly.. we already have a movie about the Tuskegee Airmen, then there's the movie Miracle at St. Anna..

I wish Hollywood had some guts or there was someone crazy enough to invest in telling the stories of other pilots, like the long serving German aces or the Japanese ones.. something comparable to Das Boot in terms of epic story.

[bongodriver]

Problem there Stern is that the Americans for the most part have no interest in stories that aren't their own, hence why the film about the capture of the enigma was 'americanised', or the next Battle of Britain movie was set to feature 'Billy Fiske' saving europe, may as well suggest making a movie glorifying Osama Bin Laden....it will have as much of a chance, it's not like the Tuskeege airmen were the first black combat pilots, the comonwealth forces had them and many others from other ethnic groups.

[MD_Titus]

Originally Posted by 335th_GRExandas

Tuskegee airmen where very good only because they had racial issues.
They forced to prove things that days, just for the American society.

uh, what?

[Rjel]

I just love how U.S. pilots (actually all Allied pilots) contributions in WWII are continually trivialized by those fans of the Luftwaffe. Tell me, what was the better strategy? Flying high scoring Aces until they dropped or continually turning over your forces so you had combat trained instructors teaching those who followed? It obviously wasn't just loads of pilots and planes that turned the tide for the Allies. Remember the Russians had scads of both in 1941. It didn't do them much good, did it?

When the Americans first started combat over Europe, the Luftwaffe still enjoyed local air superiority most days. Also, there weren't a thousand P-51s concentrated in one area of Germany at any given time. By most accounts I've read, all the USAAF fighter groups were staggered while they performed their escort duties. One group would escort a given part of a bomber stream until relieved by a fresher group. So the idea that a mere 100 Germans stood in the face of a thousand P-51s is BS. They might have faced a 1000 bombers in any given mission, but those were also strung out of a 100 mile long line.

[Frequent_Flyer]

Originally Posted by Rjel

I just love how U.S. pilots (actually all Allied pilots) contributions in WWII are continually trivialized by those fans of the Luftwaffe. Tell me, what was the better strategy? Flying high scoring Aces until they dropped or continually turning over your forces so you had combat trained instructors teaching those who followed? It obviously wasn't just loads of pilots and planes that turned the tide for the Allies. Remember the Russians had scads of both in 1941. It didn't do them much good, did it?

When the Americans first started combat over Europe, the Luftwaffe still enjoyed local air superiority most days. Also, there weren't a thousand P-51s concentrated in one area of Germany at any given time. By most accounts I've read, all the USAAF fighter groups were staggered while they performed their escort duties. One group would escort a given part of a bomber stream until relieved by a fresher group. So the idea that a mere 100 Germans stood in the face of a thousand P-51s is BS. They might have faced a 1000 bombers in any given mission, but those were also strung out of a 100 mile long line.

Well said, but you won't convince the goofs on this forum. More Luftwaffe Aces were lost to western allies than the east, in fact the Luftwaffe suffered more losses in total to the west. In addition, the Luftwaffe fought over the own territory for nearly the whole western conflict. Once the Luftwaffe had to face superior aircraft and better pilots of the west, they were exposed .

The best pilots of the war were in the pacific. Fighting in much more difficult weather conditions over far larger distances, most of it being water( any one who has actually piloted a small craft over nothing but water can imagine the difficulty faced by pilots who were engaged in combat,disoreinted, low on fuel maybe wounded and needed to find your aircraft carrier with the navigational equipment used in the 1940's) . Landing and taking off of a carrier in good weather during daylight hours takes more skill than anything the Luftwaffe ever faced. Than try it in poor weather at night with little or no fuel as was the case for the USN in a number of engagements. This is to say nothing of the navigational skill needed a bit more challenging than flying barely past the border of your own country. Where if you bailed out there was a good chance you would rejoin your own unit by morning. In the Pacific , if you left your aircraft you more than likely were not seen from again.

[swiss]

this was so sentimental - you almost made me cry.

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by Frequent_Flyer

Well said, but you won't convince the goofs on this forum. More Luftwaffe Aces were lost to western allies than the east, in fact the Luftwaffe suffered more losses in total to the west. In addition, the Luftwaffe fought over the own territory for nearly the whole western conflict. Once the Luftwaffe had to face superior aircraft and better pilots of the west, they were exposed .

I'm sorry man, but that sounds a bit biased. You're not keeping into account the sheer imbalance in numbers: the USAAF only could put up 10 to 50 times more planes than the Luftwaffe. Despite these tremendous numbers, there still are circa 100 German pilots with at least 100 kills in their combat career. Considering the conditions in which they fought, with inferior machines, lower numbers and difficult logistics, saying that the Allies had better pilots is ludicrous to say the least.

The best pilots of the war were in the pacific. Fighting in much more difficult weather conditions over far larger distances, most of it being water( any one who has actually piloted a small craft over nothing but water can imagine the difficulty faced by pilots who were engaged in combat,disoreinted, low on fuel maybe wounded and needed to find your aircraft carrier with the navigational equipment used in the 1940's) . Landing and taking off of a carrier in good weather during daylight hours takes more skill than anything the Luftwaffe ever faced. Than try it in poor weather at night with little or no fuel as was the case for the USN in a number of engagements. This is to say nothing of the navigational skill needed a bit more challenging than flying barely past the border of your own country. Where if you bailed out there was a good chance you would rejoin your own unit by morning. In the Pacific , if you left your aircraft you more than likely were not seen from again.

I would say that the worst conditions were in the Pacific, but the best pilots is based on what assumptions? Pacific pilots didn't have to face enormous flak barrages, being bounced by skilled wolfpacks etc.. sure, the conditions were harsher and the odds of surviving smaller if shot down over the sea, but this doesn't make them better pilots. As per navigation skills, they all relied on the same training and methods, if anything it's easier to navigate at sea because you can rely on good instruments or star navigation, and make less errors by spotting landmarks and confusing them with something else.

[MD_Titus]

Inferior machines stern? Woah, stop the presses, nerf the luftwaffe! For years we've had the mechanical superiority/numerical inferiority of the luftwaffe rammed down our throats and now you say it is a lie!

Mind.

Blown.