Mustang accident

[winny]

Originally Posted by IamNotDavid

There certainly weren't 200,000 people there on the day of the accident. How can you tell that 200,000 attended? All I see is a memorial page when I go to the Reno air race website.

Attendance for Reno over the week is around 200,000.. (Google reno air race attendance figures). I did the week figures because I couldn't get a daily figure and also because you were using the 'per-event' numbers. If you do it by day.

If you do it by day then obviously you'll get a different number.

Originally Posted by winny

Attendance for Reno over the week is around 200,000.. (Google reno air race attendance figures). I did the week figures because I couldn't get a daily figure and also because you were using the 'per-event' numbers. If you do it by day.

If you do it by day then obviously you'll get a different number.

That includes the air show, which distorts the numbers.

[winny]

Originally Posted by IamNotDavid

That includes the air show, which distorts the numbers.

The whole accident distorts the figures.

From a few sources it would appear that about 8,000 people were there on the day. If you take it as an isolated incident then obviously that's a much higher chance of being killed. But it only applies to that one race. If you take it as an isolated incident then the number of deaths per race would be 11, and it isn't.

If you get the total number of races, then the total number of people who attended these races and the total number of people killed you'd get the average chance of being killed at the race. I couldn't find total attendance to date, or how many races there have been since it started.

But, 30,000+ people were killed in the US by traffic related accidents.
If it's about unaccetable numbers of people dying then however you dress it up it's trivial when compared to other accidents.

If it's about people smashing vintage warplanes into the ground then why mention deaths. Racing any machine is, has always been, and will always be, dangerous to the participants and the spectators. But the number of people who die is miniscule as a percentage of the overall death total for a year.

Total number of deaths in the USA in 2009 - 2,423,712 - total killed by an out of control aircraft that was involved in a race - 11. (this is actually wrong because I'm using 2009 and nobody died as a result of watching an air race in 2009) But you see my point.

It was tragic but it was also a freak.

Originally Posted by winny

It was tragic but it was also a freak.

Aircraft crash regularly at Reno. As I have pointed out repeatedly, 2 pilots die for every 5 events. That one of them finally crashed into the crowd is not especially freakish considering how often they crash.

[Sammi79]

Originally Posted by IamNotDavid

Aircraft crash regularly at Reno. As I have pointed out repeatedly, 2 pilots die for every 5 events. That one of them finally crashed into the crowd is not especially freakish considering how often they crash.

It is absolutely freakish considering it has happened only once in the entire history of the sport.

You seem to fail to grasp the amount of racing that goes on at Reno, It is hardly 1 event. Several days qualifying followed by a week of heat racing with several races per day, is as I have pointed out to you repeatedly, closely comparable to a whole season in F1 which has a higher death rate per year.

If people want to kill themselves having fun in their own machines, or want to get close enough to watch the spectacle therefore accepting the slight risk that an aircraft may crash on them then who are you or anyone to tell them that they shouldn't? Do you think people would be thankful for being deprived of their passion? I personally can think of worse ways to go.

Originally Posted by Sammi79

It is absolutely freakish considering it has happened only once in the entire history of the sport.

You seem to fail to grasp the amount of racing that goes on at Reno, It is hardly 1 event. Several days qualifying followed by a week of heat racing with several races per day, is as I have pointed out to you repeatedly, closely comparable to a whole season in F1 which has a higher death rate per year.

The fact that it has only happened once does not necessarily make it freakish. The sample size (47) isn't very big. I out of 47 really isn't that freakish, especially when you consider how often they crash.

And is isn't close to an F1 season at all. Each F1 event also has qualifying and practice. A Reno event is similar to a single F1 event, not an entire season. Comparing a single Reno event to an entire season of F1 is absurd.

Originally Posted by Sammi79

If people want to kill themselves having fun in their own machines, or want to get close enough to watch the spectacle therefore accepting the slight risk that an aircraft may crash on them then who are you or anyone to tell them that they shouldn't? Do you think people would be thankful for being deprived of their passion?

Reno racers don't have the right to put people in danger just because they want an audience. Nor do I care what they think about being shut down.

[Sammi79]

Originally Posted by IamNotDavid

The fact that it has only happened once does not necessarily make it freakish. The sample size (47) isn't very big. I out of 47 really isn't that freakish, especially when you consider how often they crash.

since 47 = events & years, once in 47 years is roughly 2% chance per year - thats pretty unlikely, if not freakish.

Originally Posted by IamNotDavid

And is isn't close to an F1 season at all. Each F1 event also has qualifying and practice. A Reno event is similar to a single F1 event, not an entire season. Comparing a single Reno event to an entire season of F1 is absurd.

like i said David, however you refuse to try to counter this argument, 1 event in F1 is equal to roughly 6 hrs racing including practice and qualifying. 1 season in F1 is between 10-20 events (19 atm but this is at the high end if you look at history)

1 event at Reno = several days (for arguments sake lets say 4?) at least 6 hrs per day qualifying = minumum 24 hrs qualifying, which is what you'd get in a season in F1 if you had 12 races in a particular year

After the days qualifying a working week of races (5 days x 6hrs per day) = minumum 30 hrs racing which is equal to a 15 race season in F1.

However you look at it, you cannot say one event at Reno is equatable to one event in F1, but then I fully expect you to repeat '2 deaths per 5 events' as if every time someone got in a plane to race 2/5 times they would die as that's all you have come up with so far. Why not try to argue my point seeing as you wanted to play statistics? I have shown fairly that actually the racing at Reno to be comparably dangerous to F1 and others have added that some motorsports are certainly more dangerous (Isle of Mann TT)

Originally Posted by IamNotDavid

Reno racers don't have the right to put people in danger just because they want an audience. Nor do I care what they think about being shut down.

yes well sorry David I didn't know they forced you to go and watch at gunpoint you have my sympathies. Read what you just wrote! People put themselves knowingly in danger of their own free will because they have accepted the risks and want to watch the racing, is that clear enough for you?

Here's a quote from one of the families of the victims : 'They would have wanted the races to continue...'

[winny]

Originally Posted by IamNotDavid

Aircraft crash regularly at Reno. As I have pointed out repeatedly, 2 pilots die for every 5 events. That one of them finally crashed into the crowd is not especially freakish considering how often they crash.

It's racing - it's the very edge of performance - people die racing motorcycles all the time. Isle of Man TT kills at least one rider per year, That's 1 for each event.

I beg to differ, it's extremley freakish. It happened directly in front of the crowd, it happened at low level, it has never happened before. Explain to me how it's not a freak?

2 pilots per 5 events = 1 every 2 and a half years. More people die in the US from lightning strikes per year.

Originally Posted by winny

It's racing - it's the very edge of performance - people die racing motorcycles all the time. Isle of Man TT kills at least one rider per year, That's 1 for each event.

Racing motorcycles is probably the only thing dumber than racing aircraft.

Originally Posted by winny

2 pilots per 5 events = 1 every 2 and a half years. More people die in the US from lightning strikes per year.

The sample size of "people in the US" is considerably larger than "Reno pilots". But thanks for proving my point about not understanding how dangerous it is.

[Gerbil Maximus]

Having read all of your tripe through this thread and all your many other threads I suspect as David Hayward, it is clear you are a troll and trolling is your hobby. You are a disgusting animal and nothing is lower than your wonderful self. Satan would be proud.