ATAG Dedicated Server is up!

[SEE]

Yes Trumps, understand but disagree! Where is this .....'its a satisfying challenge to get off the ground whilst being vulched' in the previous posts?

I just had quick session on the new map and guess what? I was vulched twice in a Spit Mk1a during and shortly after take off by a BF!

The Mk1a hasn't got the legs to do anything as its getting airborne against a BF with mash, more energy and frigging cannons to boot.......this argument works both ways buddy, except it's the Red Mk1 pilot evading a UFO if he has no cover!

I took the spit Mk2 (on the previous map) on the afternoon, there were only a few players. I wasn't interested in DF's, just take off, get to 20K quickly and chop a few wings of enemy AI. But no chance! A BF came in low over Hawking, took out a low flying Spit and then had a go at me - so I killed him - if he hadn't bothered me I wouldn't have got involved!

Not impressed and I'm not having a dig at you or any of the guys! There ought to be a few Spit Mk2's available to deal with this problem!

[bw_wolverine]

I kind of have to agree about this with SEE.

Though I'm not advocating any kind of 'regulation' on vulching, I'm certain that the solution to seeing Mk IIa's on the server is not to just shoot anything that moves on a runway. At least don't claim it as some kind of 'virtuous' act for the benefit of the server population.

What would YOU do if you tried to get airborne and every time you took your plane out, someone with a better performing, better situated plane shot you down? Pick a better plane? Or quit I suppose.

Actually, I don't have to ask, that's exactly what some of the 109 pilots are saying they do when they see a Mk. IIa on the server, only they can't pick a better plane so they choose option B and quit.

I'm still not totally convinced that the IIa is the undefeatable uberplane people are saying it is. If it is such a superior plane, find a wingman and fly with them. It's not hard. Just hang about your airfield or region until you find another pilot and form up. Don't need to be on coms, or chat or whatever. Just latch onto his wing and fly with him. Probably most encounters you're having are against single aircraft anyway unless it's bomber ai. 2v1 should defeat this Mk IIa unless you're swiftly bounced with no warning.

Anyway, it's just getting to me. I'm sucking it up in my Mk Ia against all you guys and trying hard and having some success for it. If the Mk IIa is on by mistake, give the ATAG guys a little credit for their hard work and do your best. You might find you have one of your best flights and come up a winner against this super plane and that'll probably feel pretty good. I suggest escorting bombers with high top cover. Any RAF pilot worth his salt should be trying to take out the bombers before the fighters anyway. Plus, he's likely to think you're a friendly fighter attacking the bombers and you can surprise him.

PS. Please don't tell me to 'just fly the hurricane'. I'm not a hurricane pilot. I've got nothing against the hurricane. It did all the hard work and the spitfire got all the praise for it. I'm just not interested in flying it.

[bw_wolverine]

Getting off the plane list debate for a second:

Flew tonight during the Operation Mongoose mission and had an interesting encounter.

It was late so there were few people on the server and I was looking at the player list and noticed no Blue forces. I relaxed a bit (I was ove France at the time) since I figured no enemy fighters would be about.

Of course, it's right about this time that two 109s jump me from above. And me in my Mk Ia Spitfire.

Fortunately, they were terrible shots and wasted a lot of their ammo while I tried to get on their sixes. I got some bullets into one 109, but quickly after that my ailerons were cut.

Let me tell you, that's a long flight back to England using just your rudder and elevator. Not to mention the 109 that is still following me and pumping led into my tail. Luckily, he didn't manage to hurt anything else in my plane.

I even managed to land (used emergency landing gear co2) and would have saved the prop if it hadn't been for the fact that I came in without flaps (flaps would have made the speed too slow for me to control the roll with the rudder) and was speeding towards the hangars at the end of the runway. I had to break harder than I wanted and put the nose in the dirt. Watch out for flying deHavilland!

Home safe and sound, but an interesting lesson in never thinking that you're safe when you're over enemy territory.

[JG52Krupi]

The problem with vulching against the reds is that if you remain under 2000m it's only a matter of time before you start getting pounded by bofors.

This is not the case against the blues that don't have the luxury of heavy aa defence which is why I was bounced by two spits three times in a row.

I fly reds if the teams are not even and I have never experienced vulching like that they had a no opposition and didn't have to worry about aa.

Anyway thanks again for providing us with your server and hats off to the number if hours you guys have spent on mission building thank you.

[Valec]

Originally Posted by cheesehawk

100kph faster, and therefore better climbing, and with an inherently better turn rate, I guarantee I can bounce any 2 109s with a IIa and come out on top 80% of the time. Even co-E I should win against both majority of the time (I'm not talking about just killing 1 of them either).

Please give false information over sea level !!!! sea level Spit IIa WEP 482 Km/h WEP Bf E4 460 Km/h

[JG52Krupi]

Lmao 460 in a 109 at sea level, perhaps after a dive yes but from take off it's more like ~400.

[Valec]

Originally Posted by JG52Krupi

Lmao 460 in a 109 at sea level, perhaps after a dive yes but from take off it's more like ~400.

Not dive! 10 hours propeller WEP 460 Km/h

[Valec]

He wants it to fly head to meetings and not complain.

[klem]

The vulching argument goes back as far as IL-2 '46, Aces High and even Air Warrior for those that have been around long enough to remember it.

The answer is not to allow the enemy to vulch you. How? Take off from a rear base and have the patience to gain altitude and get yourself a better situation. One thing the ATAG server needs is more of the distant bases like Hornchurch, Tangmere, or even mid-bases like Biggin Hill and Kenley (which I have seen on some maps).

If you want to jump up at Hawkinge for a quick fight you must expect to get vulched if the LW are willing to risk the AAA. Taking risks like that is pure 'dogfight server' mentality although as someone said, sometimes the adrenalin is worth it but don't complain if you get killed As I understand it the ATAG server is not a 'dogfight server'. And by the way, RAF Manston frequently suffered attacks including 'vulching' and they abandoned it for daytime fighter operations in the end because it was too close to the enemy.

The LW bases should be just as heavily defended with AAA as the RAF bases. Why not?

The SpitII is not an uber plane. I ran some quick top speed tests on it and it is actually a little below the real thing, e.g. 6,500' Boost 5.3, RPM 2990 ASI 280 but should be 290. At 20,000' its supposed to be 269 but I only got 245 (I could never get the boost figures given in the following test but that doesn't necessarily translate into performance in the MG FM). For those interested see Boscombe Down testing results:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/4598146/Pi...lin-XII-Engine
and Pilots Notes may also be interesting (but no top speed figures):
http://www.scribd.com/doc/4598146/Pi...lin-XII-Engine

The SpitII speed deficiency is no big deal under the current circumstances but may become an argument in the other direction if the 109s are fixed to perform as they should. The problem is not the SpitII, its those other aircraft that are dogs compared with what they should be. And we haven't even seen what the Rotol MkI Spits will be like.

Also the SpitII is not responsible for vulching success. Thats down to the players and is just as achievable in a SpitI, Hurricane or even a Blenheim (except its very hard for the LW guys to do much about the SpitII even if they have managed to get into the air).

The SpitII is only at an advantage in a fight and of course its a problem at the moment so I understand it being taken off. Currently the Rotol Hurri isn't a bad stand-in.

[Ze-Jamz]

Ok I don't know where this has gone but it's starting to go off rails again....Spit2 is old now, you either include it and have the moaning or don't include it and noone complains! and the sides are still mostly even lately....Go figure!

The vulching has nothing to do with the Spit2 being ingame, vulching happen and I'm not against it, what I'm against is it happening when there is NO AA cover or lack of it and it's in a Spit2 that are by the truckloads because it available all over the bloody place.

You mention being vulched in a 109 in England? Sure, stay there long and your lose a wing...go try it, also if you get low and silly your lose against the Spit (mostly), that's the difference, you cannot do anything against the Mk2, is this so hard to understand by either side, you cannot run from it at level speed or Dive from it so how do you evade it? Take a wingman again?

So what were saying then unlike every other ww2 flight sim we now have to fly in pairs to survive a plane that's been introduced and by all accounts has a much better FM than anything else in game...

I spend a lot of time in Repka flying the Mk2 so I'm speaking from experience. I also don't get shot down that much due to stupidly high (lonely) heights in the 109 so it's not sour grapes either.

SO

Spit2 is superior so please let's not keep having this discussion, it's overmodeled, everyone can see it, everyone agrees, Bliss took it out after spending time in both rides, you add that to being available at all bases, then top it off with hardly any AA defence and your having a rubbish time on the server..

None of this happened to me, not once btw, I was seeing it and reading it for about 2 hours hence why I posted, this has nothing to do with take the Spit2 out cuz people are vulching so let's end that there shall we.

If your answer to the Spit2 is get a wingman then fine again were leave it there...there was no issues, no BS and no moaning by EITHER sides until that thing was introduced, again...go figure

Talk about de-railed