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[Danelov]

Weight 109 date

E-1 5516 lbs Operational Empty 4426 lbs
E-3 5875 lbs Operational Empty 4440 lbs
E-4 5530 lbs Operational Empty 4894 lbs
E-7 6092 lbs Operational Empty 4445 lbs


Some small weight differences between constructors are normal

[Jugdriver]

A Spit II would be over 6000 Lbs. The numbers I quoted in my previous post are for a +9LBS boosted Spit II. I think the FM for the Spit II might be a bit confused.. IMO the Spit I and Hurr I in the game are modeled with the +6 ¼LBS boost in mind and the Spit II is modeled with the + 12LBS Boost and 100 octane fuel. Combine that with some favorable numbers and a (little) less than historical performance in the 109 E and there is a significant gap in the performance of the two planes and how they should be modeled. One thing to keep in mind though, even if these aircraft are modeled correctly the Spit II +12LBS will be a deadly opponent for a 109 E 1, 3, 4.

[Das Attorney]

Originally Posted by Jugdriver

A Spit II would be over 6000 Lbs. The numbers I quoted in my previous post are for a +9LBS boosted Spit II. I think the FM for the Spit II might be a bit confused.. IMO the Spit I and Hurr I in the game are modeled with the +6 ¼LBS boost in mind and the Spit II is modeled with the + 12LBS Boost and 100 octane fuel. Combine that with some favorable numbers and a (little) less than historical performance in the 109 E and there is a significant gap in the performance of the two planes and how they should be modeled. One thing to keep in mind though, even if these aircraft are modeled correctly the Spit II +12LBS will be a deadly opponent for a 109 E 1, 3, 4.

The Mark I and Ia are modelled up to 6.25 lbs/sq in. Boost is 6.252 lbs/sq in. Yes, that's an increase of 0.02 lbs/sq in when boost is engaged.

Check the MerlinIII entry in the engine.fmd file:

Supercharger SingleStageSupercharger Efficiency 0.5 LimiterInput Manifold NominalPressure +6.25 lbsqin ContinuousPressure +4.5 lbsqin WEPPressure +6.252 lbsqin NominalAltitude 16250 feet
Valvetrain Generic SlowRunningEfficiency 0.9
FuelPump Pushrod NominalPressure 9 lbsqin at 500 RPM
Carburettor RollsRoyceFloat DiffuserBore 6.1 cm OrificeSlowFast 1.0 sec Heater AutoEngineOil Altimetric DensityRatio Dresser BoostDriven Input +4.5 lbsqin to +6.25 lbsqin Output 1.0 to 1.01

The Spit IIa has +9 lbs/sq in boost.

From the MerlinXII entry:

Supercharger SingleStageSupercharger Efficiency 0.5 LimiterInput Manifold NominalPressure +6.25 lbsqin ContinuousPressure +4.5 lbsqin WEPPressure +9.0 lbsqin NominalAltitude 13500 feet
Valvetrain Generic SlowRunningEfficiency 0.9
FuelPump Pushrod NominalPressure 9 lbsqin at 500 RPM
Carburettor RollsRoyceFloat DiffuserBore 6.1 cm OrificeSlowFast 1.0 sec Heater AutoEngineOil Altimetric DensityRatio Dresser BoostDriven Input +4.5 lbsqin to +6.25 lbsqin Output 1.0 to 1.01

Spit I/Ia is way too slow, Me109 should be faster, and Spit IIa is much too fast. I modded in a +12lbs/sq in boost Spitfire IIa and it's totally insane. I'd like to see stuff like that in the game properly, but only if they sort out the existing planes first.

[Das Attorney]

Here's a little video for you

It was pre-beta, so behaviour might have changed since. It gives it another 20-25 mph or so on top of the pedestrian 250 mph the Ia can do normally. It's pretty good, but not too overbearing. One of the main problems though is that it won't overheat as long as the rad is fully open. The rad should work a bit more efficiently at speed if partially closed whereas the opposite seems true, so I'm not sure if they're modelling airflow and overheating correctly.

Basically, you can fly around forever on max boost as long as the rad is open. Pilots were under strict instructions not to overboost for more than 5 mins IRL IIRC due to wear and tear. At any rate, the fully open rad is too efficient IMO.

The boost is engaged at 50 secs in the vid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0veG5...layer_embedded

SLIGHTLY OFFTOPIC: There is an entry for reliability in the engine setup for all of the engines:

Reliability Lifetime 100 h FailureProbability 0.0

Be nice if they could do something with that in the future to simulate old/badly maintained engines.

[Jugdriver]

Originally Posted by Das Attorney

The Spit IIa has +9 lbs/sq in boost.

I thought that was the case, but I could not figure out why Cheesehawk was saying the Spit II could do 330-350MPH, I figured they had modeled the 100 Octane fuel and gave it some more on top of that. So all of the RAF aircraft right now a modeled with 87 Octane fuel, that is strange.

Cheesehawk, were you able to get 330-350MPH out of the Spit II before the patch? To be honest I have not installed the patch, I have injured my right eye and I have been told not to stress it (which means no flying) but I could not help myself and took the Spit II out pre patch and could only get 310MPH out of her on the deck.

JD
AKA_MattE

[CaptainDoggles]

So has the Spit 2 been removed from the server yet?

[trumps]

NO, it's still there. i just installed the patch and got the shock of my life after i took off in my E1, i climbed to about 3000m over the french coast, spiralling up at 250kph, saw a contact well below me, more than 1000m below, and watched in amazement as he spiralled up and got bigger and bigger, closer and closer until he was ontop of me, rather quickly i might add! i cranked up the pitch pushed the nose down and went into a screaming dive with the speedo bouncing at around 700kph indicated, after i got down on the deck and the speed bled back to about 500kph i checked behind me and there was the spit. if i cant outclimb, or out dive them there is nothing left for the 109 at the moment. i might as well go and fly the G-50, it is as pointless!
love the sound and new colours.

Craig

Originally Posted by trumps

NO, it's still there. i just installed the patch and got the shock of my life after i took off in my E1, i climbed to about 3000m over the french coast, spiralling up at 250kph, saw a contact well below me, more than 1000m below, and watched in amazement as he spiralled up and got bigger and bigger, closer and closer until he was ontop of me, rather quickly i might add! i cranked up the pitch pushed the nose down and went into a screaming dive with the speedo bouncing at around 700kph indicated, after i got down on the deck and the speed bled back to about 500kph i checked behind me and there was the spit. if i cant outclimb, or out dive them there is nothing left for the 109 at the moment. i might as well go and fly the G-50, it is as pointless!
love the sound and new colours.

Craig

I can verify this, a very similar thing happened to me exept I managed to get big hits with canon on the spits right wing as i dropped on him from 1000m above, I zoomed climbed back up expecting to look behind and see him floundering around below me, instead he was climbing on me fast and got a few minor hits, I rolled and ran but he was right on me and soon shot me down. This plane needs to be put back in the hanger until its either fixed or the 109 is re-modelled.

[Ze-Jamz]

This argument is going to go on and on I think, one thing for sure its getting a lot of attention..

Couple of points as there is too much above to quote:

Mixed planesets?..never! that is just stupidity, this is a Sim not an arcade game, historically correct missions n maps all adds to the immersion factor, fighting a red 109 with a blue 109 doesnt..in any way shape or form

High Alt Flying...Reds take the Hurri Rotol as before

Regardless of facts and figures and documentation getting dismissed or welcomed the Spit2 was not in game before so why is it now? that's my point here...we all agreed something was either porked with the 109 or over modeled in the Spit2 so whats changed?

Stability of allfighters at low speeds
Boost cut out on Spit

No performance upgrades whatsoever afaik or have tested

All Blue flyers... Hmm that is indeed strange and found myself flying said Spit last night just to balance things out...I can only put that down to firepower now..

Same was with BoB server in Il2...109-E with cannon against Spit with 303..everyone flew 109's, as soon as the Mk5 was available with hispano 20's alot more peeps jumped in the Spits.

I don't think alot of people will fly high but Im willing to test and dogfight anytime up high..Atm though I would put a bet the Spit2 will out perform up High and tbh isnt that what it done anyway in RL encounters?

If you merged Co-E up high with a Spit in a 109 youve got a hard time ahead, even in Il2 with like for like skill level but low to Med Alt you at least have the option to run and dive...this cannot happen now people, I dont know what the issue is here with that...anyone flying both planes must see this..

To Bliss ~S~ Dude that spit can climb forever mate with the correct PP...Id put it to the test with you if you like, I can guarantee at a merge across the channel taken off at the same time the SPit2 will be higher, again I didnt think this was ever the case untill later Mk's were introduced..

Having the Auto prop might make things different and balance things accordingly though Im not confident in that, the correct Top Speed would help more with the 109 which brings back the option to dive and get away which has allways been the case in any ww2 game with correct(ish) FM's..

What were saying now is for a 109 pilot you have to behave like a 190 pilot would against the Mk5's etc in IL2...stay very high n fast and not DF in anyway against a Spit2... thats wrong.

Yes the Spit1a seems rusty in game for med to high alt fighting..take the Hurri rotol then

Introduce the Spit2 when we all agree the FM's are where they should be..i know thats a hard call but im pretty sure most of us aggree that the 109's top speed is wrong, the Spit1a is lacking power wether it be fuel or PP...whats wrong with the SPit2?