Really?

[Strike]

Originally Posted by Snapper

Great line! I gotta remember that one next time my boss asks me for a progress update.

Yeah tell your boss you're not paying him to talk to you that will turn some heads

What angered me was that I was sold for full price a beautiful vase to find out I bought a vase that was boken and had not been glazed yet. Then I'm told not to complain as it will one day be beautiful and I am just a hater/whiner with an agenda, because they ran out of money. That is no excuse, they should have raised money from releasing a beta.

If this had been advertised as a beta release I would not complain. This release has been a disgrace and the potential greatness of the software does not excuse it. This game may well be great and I may enjoy it emensely but the release has been a disaster and a disappointment that has turned off many.

[Pudfark]

I am not "perfectly" satisfied with the recent/current update...
However, it did accomplish one thing?
It did help restore some order in the "house"...

Communication must continue...in an orderly fashion and it must
meet the customers expectations.

The "repair" of the sim?
Must meet those same expectations.

My expectations are reasonably met....for awhile.

What was stated by others...?
That more info from luthier would be met by more criticism?
Has not been proven to be true...

[Blackdog_kt]

Originally Posted by cheesehawk

With the size of their staff, 6.5 years is a decent accomplishment for creating a new engine. Look at Blizzard's track record for development, and their staff is 1000x larger. I doubt their games are as difficult to code as a flight sim, although their product was released in a much more polished state.

Excellent example. I own a copy of starcraft 2, it's polished to a ridiculous extent but then again, it's a multi-million dollar franchise with a humongous staff and much simpler requirements in terms of crunching the numbers required to deliver the kind of gameplay it needs to.

Well, SC2 came approximately 10 years after the first one. Assuming they didn't start working on it right away, i'd guess it was at least a 5 year process (they only ever talked about it and started providing development updates a couple of years before it was released too).

Remember, we're talking about a game with a vibrant pro-gamer community (started in Korea and expanded worldwide), with televised (3 tv stations in Korea) and online pay-per-view tournaments of professional leagues, tournaments sponsored by hardware manufacturing companies (from mice and headsets to CPUs and graphics cards), players who get paid almost as much as sports stars ($100K per year is not unheard of for a good professional player), bookmaking and even a betting scandal with set-up matches that resulted in courts getting involved.

In other words, a game with a ton of income and marketing surrounding it and it still took anywhere between 3 and 5 years to simply get it out the door, plus an extended open beta (3 months or so, maybe more) and multiple post-release patches to bring gameplay to a properly balanced level for competitive gameplay.

People have a right to be displeased about the initial state of affairs regarding CoD and the developers admitted so themselves very early on. What's tiresome is seeing that despite the commitment to and progress of fixing things (stated in words and tangible in the form of patches) which has taken the title to a 90% functional state if not more, there's a tendency often displayed in the forums to keep dwelling in the unpleasant past.

Yes, the release was less than stellar and that's putting it mildly. The current state of the sim is nowhere near the same state of affairs though, so why keep dredging up situations that have been rendered obsolete and are not applicable anymore? I mean, it sure is strange that in a group of hobbyists there seems to be a distinct and quantifiable portion of it that seem to be scared of the possibility of actually having fun, because something that happened during the first two months rubbed them the wrong way, no matter how justified the initial negative reaction was.

To put it otherwise, as long as the current ratio of fun vs frustration is a positive one and they keep working on it to improve it further, i really see no reason to think back to the release. Sure, i had 15 FPS over sea when i first installed it, but now i'm running 30-60 FPS (capped due to Vsync) over land on two year old hardware. I would have to purposefully try to make myself angry to keep thinking about the times of 15 FPS, which frankly is a waste of my time when i can enjoy the currently playable condition of the sim.

In other words, i would have to be holding a grudge and be determined not to have fun with it. It's like having a badly baked caked in front of me, i sent it back and they give me a perfectly edible one but i'm not eating it because i keep thinking of the first cake. Well, i only have myself to blame for not tasting some cake in that case

[CaptainDoggles]

Originally Posted by Strike

I don't know about you, but I paid them so they could WORK, not chat with us.

Part of "work" means keeping us informed. If you think development progress updates and community dialogue aren't a valuable part of the software development process then you are sadly out of touch.

[Strike]

Originally Posted by CaptainDoggles

Part of "work" means keeping us informed. If you think development progress updates and community dialogue aren't a valuable part of the software development process then you are sadly out of touch.

The clue here is. Luthier knows english. He isn't afraid to use it, and by simply not keeping an open dialogue he avoids being "dragged into" the mess we've made these forums. I believe the man chooses not to provide us an update until there is actually a small list of things to report. It's like people with their facebook status too.

Some people like to say they are going on a vacation, so first they pack everything, then they drive to the airport, then they are trying to find their flight, then they are waiting for their flight, then they are boarding, then they are "HELLO BOGNOR REGIS!" and meet their family etc etc. Personally, I can't stand that livefeed update stuff. It's better they say @Bognor Regis so people know they're home, we don't need the details of the entire journey :p

I'd rather have consistent updates, like Luther has said he will try to do But what's the point if he can only say, we're pretty much in the middle of progress on everything here. Our sound guy has encountered a problem and will need to redo parts of the engine all over again to get the desired results, etc etc. I don't want to know that. I know that developing is a LOT of trial and error and takes loads of attempts to perfect. So if the poor guy has to run through his entire staff, halt them and ask "Ok how you doing? Did you fix that yet?" it's gonna both delay and derail his staff. It's better to set a goal, work towards that and report later, when there's actually some work that's finished and worth showing off. Just look at the complaints on last update!

"But the cockpit colours are off...." "that doesn't look like metal..." etc etc. Even though he stated they weren't final people stated they were unsatisfied.

I think, if they are working on something, and it's not finished, and friday is there and everything's basically a wip, perhaps a lot of features are in the grayzone of being postponed or released, it's too early to say anything at all. I still hear people cry about that Su-26. If they learned anything, it was that promising all this stuff and not delivering is a mistake. So I don't want any update on how the update is going. Just give us a pure update.

All the errors, bugs, issues, wrong performances and wishlists are posted and here for them to find and read. I'm sure Luthier has ctrl+c'ed the long list published by insuber. I'm sure he has noticed the guy named Tree_UK on these forums.

Right now, I expect nothing until Friday next week after work. Then I have 50/50 hopes that he will say something about the patch, or nothing because it's not done yet.

At least by paying for the game, it has allowed to continuation of the project, as opposed to it being sent to the grave. That vase thingy is probably the queerest thing i've heard here btw. Who has fun with a vase? The sim is partially functional, it has it's basic mechanics working and will allow dogfights etc. and I agree it's more of a beta than anything else. But I'm happier playing it now, having supported the team in the process, than either A) Waiting for it to be released, or B) Hearing about the cancellation of the project due to lack of funds. Imagine waiting 6 years for nothing, rather than 6 years for something. Something that is being improved Most stuff you buy, like vases, or the more popular metaphor, "CARS" tend to wither and wear down over time. Software does not Given all the whine produced from these forums the sim should age in a cellar


/vent off

[CaptainDoggles]

Tragically misguided...

It's obvious you can't be made to see the light so I'll take my leave of this thread. Ta ta for now.

[von Pilsner]

Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt

What's tiresome is seeing that despite the commitment to and progress of fixing things (stated in words and tangible in the form of patches) which has taken the title to a 90% functional state if not more, there's a tendency often displayed in the forums to keep dwelling in the unpleasant past.

Sorry, but as a SP player this game does not feel 90% done, the AI and radio are the big killers (I'm sure you already knew this) so not all the bugs are in the past.

[Pudfark]

Geeez............
Luthier finally spoke up....
Almost all of the "whiners"...shut up...
Now, this?

How about just leaving things alone for a few weeks....
Give luthier a break...Give the mods a break...Give the community a break...

Why shouldn't we all?
Just give it a rest...for a couple of weeks...

I'm going to reload COD...give it another go...and wait for coming patch...

See y'all up there....

Originally Posted by Strike

That vase thingy is probably the queerest thing i've heard here btw. Who has fun with a vase?


/vent off

It was a metaphor about buying something broken and unfinished, that obviously went over your head.