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IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover Latest instalment in the acclaimed IL-2 Sturmovik series from award-winning developer Maddox Games.

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  #41  
Old 05-08-2011, 06:35 PM
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robtek robtek is offline
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Originally Posted by DogTailRed2 View Post
Many thanks to everyone for making this an interesting and lively thread.
My system is a reasonably decent set-up......

>>>>That is, imho, your first and most important misconception.

Quad core 2.33. 4 gb RAM. GTS 250 1gb RAM. 500gb RAID 0 striped discs for speed. Win 7 64bit.

>>>>>>That was "decent" in 2009.

While I appreciate that is not state of the art it should be able to cope with the basics the sim has to offer. My sliders are set at medium settings. If I go much lower then I just end up with IL2 in quality..........

>>>>>>The devs mentioned before release that CoD would run on actual high-end
>>>>>> systems in med settings. It does much better!

........There's not even any stirring music as you engage the enemy and those splash screens are decidedly eastern front in look and feel. ...........

>>>>>>This is no Playstation game.

........When I fly FSX with the A2A Spitfire. 3 pumps on the primer. Firing the coffman starter and waiting for temps to rise, or checking the trolly acc is attached.......

>>>>>>OM didn't want to make a "procedure-sim", though i would like this also.

........ Looking down on an accurate depiction of England........

>>>>> Compared with some google-earth - shots, we have that already.


.........When I fly COD over a stuttery unrecognisable sudo English landscape to do battle with a gaggle of, very nicely rendered, 6+ Stukas, in my Yak50 (well, that's what it sounds like and not very good at that)..........

>>>>>>stuttery -> see my first remark, sound could be better.though.

........ Opening the throttle wide and then wondering if i'm actually accelerating at all........

>>>>>>There are Instruments, you know.


......But it's not going to be an accurate depiction of the Battle of Britain. No watching the fuel gauges for the 109's. No feeling of being outnumbered for the Spitfires. No scrambles or climb to battle and being bounced for the Hurri's. No late evening patrols in murky weather and trying to find base

No Polish `flying circus` shouting "Repeat please" over the RT..........

>>>>>>How can you possibly know that? Timemachine? This sim isn't finished yet!



Regards,

Dog.
I just had to comment.

regards

robtek
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  #42  
Old 05-08-2011, 08:04 PM
Blackdog_kt Blackdog_kt is offline
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Originally Posted by TacKY View Post
That's what it is suppose to be.... It never said that it was a WWI sim. At the moment, ROF is better. We aren't talking about two years ago but now. IL 2 is simply a buggy, horrible game and unless something changes soon then it is going to stay that way. And dont even start on that "Hurr Durr our computers can't handle its complexity Deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerp" It's the Devs job to to make it work correctly not ours.
I have no problem with people having an opinion different to mine and i could certainly sympathize with your point of view if you had taken some care to apply the same standards of judgment to both sims.

It seems that too many people expect CoD to be an all-encompassing battle of Britain simulator, but RoF you say is not supposed to model WWI and only needs to focus on the aircraft. Oh really? So why shouldn't CoD be allowed to do the same?

A two year old sim that focuses on a conflict with a more or less completely static frontline on a single map (plus seasonal texture variations) can't give you the complete WWI experience of a single year of that conflict, due to a severely limited choice of units to use as "actors" in recreating those WWI scenarios and this is just what's common knowledge and a direct consequence of its subject matter (less complicated aircraft, weapons, systems, etc). I'm not even mentioning the design complaints and limited engine capabilities reported by people who actually have the sim.

Two years on it seems that RoF still gets a pass for being developed by an upstart team, while all the judgmental attitude is reserved for the IL2 series. It's fine by me to have strict and high standards, as long as you apply them equally to all games you review and at similar points during their life. If you want to compare CoD with RoF, compare them at release. CoD has more flyables, more AI units and more stuff to do because the subject matter is more complex by nature, yet it's cheaper to own and improve on and with less restrictions on how you can play your game.
Does the much touted dynamic campaign of RoF work in offline mode? I don't think it does, in fact the only thing you can do offline is fly single missions and scripted campaigns which is (ding ding ding!) exactly what CoD has and with a more or less comparable amount of flyables but most importantly, a much more varied selection of AI units and the ability to use a lot of them in a mission to help enrich the scenarios we want to recreate.

I'm not telling you not to like it, i have been tempted to give it a go myself on various occasions. However, the way they develop and grow that sim is completely incompatible to what i expect from a simulation while on the other hand, the IL2 and CoD approach is much more suited to my taste-->long story short, it's a matter of taste too.

What i'm trying to say is that today's RoF is nothing like the early days, but if we go by that line of reason that says "the only thing that matters is a comparison in the present", then RoF must have been pretty awful too in its early days because IL2 was so much more complete, optimized, hassle-free and with tons of content.

As you can see, this school of thought only serves to create a skewed perspective, is not fair to any of the games/sims reviewed under such a "rule system" and completely denies any possibility of innovation in the genre. Why? Because if we compare sims with such a mind-set the older one will always win and there will be no room for anything new.

RoF was worse than CoD upon release (not to mention the original IL2) so if people had compared it to IL2 the same way you now compare it to CoD, the verdict would be that it didn't have the right to even exist. And if people thought like that, it wouldn't have improved to become the much better sim that it is today. See where this is getting?

All this is like taking a look at a litter of newborn puppies, deciding they are useless and opting to drown them in a pond instead of letting them grow, only because you can't go hunting with them just yet
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  #43  
Old 05-08-2011, 08:31 PM
Zoom2136 Zoom2136 is offline
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Originally Posted by Old_Canuck View Post
Seems to me that a lot of folks are enjoying the sim nonetheless. Like IL-2 it might take awhile for hardware functionalility to catch up to software capabilities. Based on what others are saying, I'm still planning to download it when it's available in Canada.
It's already available, just get it online from Just Flight, that's what I did.

Last edited by Zoom2136; 05-08-2011 at 09:33 PM.
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  #44  
Old 05-08-2011, 09:22 PM
Zoom2136 Zoom2136 is offline
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Originally Posted by Flanker35M View Post
The bombers dogfight and collide like idiots. The power of their defence was a formation and they flew relatively steady. I can go fly in the middle of them without fear of getting even half seriously damaged. I flew under a bomber Do17Z at about 5m below the gunner and he MISSED! Shot his bullets to the sky as he tracked another plane, not mine.
Well I guess it's an improvement over the original iL2 where bomber could snipe you arrss from 1k true 4 layers of clouds...

BTW, you may have been lucky than that gunner got tunnel vison...
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  #45  
Old 05-08-2011, 09:50 PM
Khamsin Khamsin is offline
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Originally Posted by DogTailRed2 View Post
It just doesn't feel like i'm being immersed into a 1940 Battle of Britain environment.

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Originally Posted by DogTailRed2 View Post
There's not even any stirring music as you engage the enemy
Hmmmmmm
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  #46  
Old 05-08-2011, 10:20 PM
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robtek robtek is offline
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Yes Khamsin,
i also got the idea that he wanted to replay the movie
But then there should be HA112 and no Bf109 and there should be CASA 2-111 instead of HE111.
Oh, and od course all the Bf110 and Ju88A1 and Do-17 /215 are too much.
No stopping now, the tiger moth, the defiant, the blenheim, the Beaufighter and the Wellington have to go also.
So many resources wasted. sic!
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  #47  
Old 05-08-2011, 10:33 PM
Heliocon Heliocon is offline
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Originally Posted by DogTailRed2 View Post
Many thanks to everyone for making this an interesting and lively thread.
My system is a reasonably decent set-up.

Quad core 2.33. 4 gb RAM. GTS 250 1gb RAM. 500gb RAID 0 striped discs for speed. Win 7 64bit.

While I appreciate that is not state of the art it should be able to cope with the basics the sim has to offer. My sliders are set at medium settings. If I go much lower then I just end up with IL2 in quality.

It's not just the FPS that is an issue for me. It's the feel of the sim. It just doesn't feel like i'm being immersed into a 1940 Battle of Britain environment. There are some really nice touches to the sim. The stream of oil from a bombers damaged engine. Impact hit flashes from cannon shells. The spiral trail of rounds. Actually hitting a 109 and seeing coolant from his rads.
What's missing is that scramble from a recognisable RAF BOB period airfield. Listening to the controller vectoring towards the bandits (which should be something like "Tophat Leader this is Pinetree control. I have some trade for you over Maidstone. 20+ bandits at Angels 15"). Not "Red 1 attacking bombers, attacking bombers, attacking bombers. I'm out of ammo!" (try 2 second bursts old AI chap).
There's not even any stirring music as you engage the enemy and those splash screens are decidedly eastern front in look and feel. What's with all the Panzers anyway. We weren't invaded and as for the Beaufighter, why?

When I fly FSX with the A2A Spitfire. 3 pumps on the primer. Firing the coffman starter and waiting for temps to rise, or checking the trolly acc is attached. Listening to the Merlin engine purring away. Pushing the throttle forward and hearing a Merlin growl. Opening the canopy, hearing the whistle as I crack it open, then the wind rushing around the canopy when I push it back. Looking down on an accurate depiction of England. Not needing maps as I can see landmarks and other features. Flying the circuit at Duxford. Hearing the steam vent popping because I overheated her again. Buzzing the tower at Alderney and hearing the gulls flying past. I feel immersion and I don't even have anything to shoot at.

When I fly COD over a stuttery unrecognisable sudo English landscape to do battle with a gaggle of, very nicely rendered, 6+ Stukas, in my Yak50 (well, that's what it sounds like and not very good at that). Opening the throttle wide and then wondering if i'm actually accelerating at all. Then having to wait for umpteen patches to get me to a level that probably still doesn't match the other sims out there. It grates when I've been told this will be the sim to end all sims. The new bench mark we have all been waiting for. 8 years. That's a lot of waiting.

Something else I would like to challenge is the concept that what will really make this sim a big hit are all the modders out there waiting to provide me with campaigns, fixes, patches and all the other stuff to fix the sim. I was expecting some of that to be included off the shelf. Anyway shouldn't the modders happen after a sim is released and has been played out. After all this sim isn't free-ware. If the community was needed to make this sim a hit then why didn't the programmers realise this, drop design of some of the content and focus on the environment. Give us a superb and brilliant framework to work with.

IL2 was a hit when I installed the demo. It was a hit when I bought the original, and the updates. Was an even bigger hit after all the fans produced updates to it. I just feel cod is design flawed. Has two many hang-ups from the original (menu system, simple formations, eastern block sounds) and two many missing elements from the original (lead in movies, music, playability).

To go back to my original premiss. That's why I see this as being just a game. A great game potentially with the ability for mass fur-balls on-line. A great game of mods and add-ons. But it's not going to be an accurate depiction of the Battle of Britain. No watching the fuel gauges for the 109's. No feeling of being outnumbered for the Spitfires. No scrambles or climb to battle and being bounced for the Hurri's. No late evening patrols in murky weather and trying to find base.

No Polish `flying circus` shouting "Repeat please" over the RT.

Regards,

Dog.
Your gpu is pathetic, your ram is borderline too - That setups is in the range of budget gaming machine, which use better gpus than yours.
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  #48  
Old 05-09-2011, 12:22 AM
TacKY TacKY is offline
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Originally Posted by SYN_Bliss View Post
I'm not trying to take a cheap shot at anything. But for people like you or nats that are going to come here and try to compare a sim that was released and patched numerous times in over 2 years time to a sim that hasn't even been fully released yet, is laughable at best.

IL2COD short comings, the faults/bugs in it's current state will get fixed. ROF has a bunch of catching up to do to even come close to reaching the game engine or the potential of IL2COD. And you can basically recreate the BOB on the ground or in the air with the FMB. So you are wrong and obviously unknowledgable.
Im comparing them in their current states now. Not what COD could be. You're obviously biased towards COD where I couldnt give a **** since if COD was better then I would say so. ROF has everything it needs to "recreate WWI" except for infantry combat and comprehensive tank battles. COD, at the moment, is sterile and lackluster. Its funny cause everything that even insinuates something against COD is met with hostility. Lrn2internet.

So you are wrong and obviously unknowledgable since you're trying to say that ROF will never reach the "POTENTIAL trolololol" of COD. The only potential I see is the discarded area of Ubisoft's big failed games lounge unless something is done soon and not in two years. Imma leave this here since it validates everything. Amidoinitrite?

I have simply given my opinion on the matter and you simply want to start some bull shit. Maybe I should wait for a couple years before I get the game that they actually meant to make which is a horrible strategy since they have publishers.

Last edited by TacKY; 05-09-2011 at 12:30 AM.
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  #49  
Old 05-09-2011, 12:27 AM
Seeker Seeker is offline
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Originally Posted by SYN_Bliss View Post
I'm not trying to take a cheap shot at anything. But for people like you or nats that are going to come here and try to compare a sim that was released and patched numerous times in over 2 years time to a sim that hasn't even been fully released yet, is laughable at best.
.
Not fully released?

I sure as hell paid full price.

As far as I'm aware, ROF took a dam sight less then 8 years development plus a alpha release plus god alone knows how many patches it's going to take before I don't feel I was defrauded out of my money.

Yes, I'm aware it's only 30 bucks. I'd be bloody annoyed if the bar man short changed me a couple of quid even if the beer was drinkable. When he short changes me AND serves cat's piss then ....

But still, if you like the taste.
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  #50  
Old 05-09-2011, 12:31 AM
TacKY TacKY is offline
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Not fully released?

I sure as hell paid full price.

As far as I'm aware, ROF took a dam sight less then 8 years development plus a alpha release plus god alone knows how many patches it's going to take before I don't feel I was defrauded out of my money.

Yes, I'm aware it's only 30 bucks. I'd be bloody annoyed if the bar man short changed me a couple of quid even if the beer was drinkable. When he short changes me AND serves cat's piss then ....

But still, if you like the taste.

P O T E N T I A L

On these forums, you never talk about the current state of the game. Only its P O T E N T I A L.

Also, he is trying to say that it will magically get better once it is released in the US. They can have their delusions.

Last edited by TacKY; 05-09-2011 at 12:34 AM.
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