Head Tracking with Cliffs of Dover

[CharveL]

Good luck with that.

I think it's cool and all what the MS kinect promises, and eventually will offer but don't expect it to work all that well for flight sims....yet anyway.

First off, I would wonder what the refresh rate on the kinect is? Even at 60fps that's only half of what a TIR offers, and yes it makes a LOT of difference in game.

Secondly, with all of that processing to recognize your head and how it's moving I would also wonder what the lag will be like. TIR is almost instantaneous the lower you keep the smoothing (processing) and I would imagine its much worse on an interface that has to figure out where your nose is in relation to the rest of your face. Then again, FT users are probably used to having more input lag than a dedicated TIR unit but I will concede that it might not be that bad having never tried FT and contend that it will likely suck on a kinect.

Thirdly, the kinect is made for console gamers. Which means it's probably not built with fidelity and accuracy in mind. C'mon, we're talking about Call of Duty type gamers used to having the console autoaim for a 'close enough' satisfaction appeal.

Still, I really do like the idea of having a Kinect-like device that eschews the need for hats/clips and look forward to the day a good dedicated company like NP come out with one.

And NP is a small company with a great group of guys from my experience, who are always willing to personally go out of their way to help, not some cliched "corporate bigwig" stereotype. They put a great deal of effort into getting games to open up to head-tracking for a flight/racing sim market that is infinitesimal.

[LoBiSoMeM]

Originally Posted by CharveL

Good luck with that.

I think it's cool and all what the MS kinect promises, and eventually will offer but don't expect it to work all that well for flight sims....yet anyway.

First off, I would wonder what the refresh rate on the kinect is? Even at 60fps that's only half of what a TIR offers, and yes it makes a LOT of difference in game.

Secondly, with all of that processing to recognize your head and how it's moving I would also wonder what the lag will be like. TIR is almost instantaneous the lower you keep the smoothing (processing) and I would imagine its much worse on an interface that has to figure out where your nose is in relation to the rest of your face. Then again, FT users are probably used to having more input lag than a dedicated TIR unit but I will concede that it might not be that bad having never tried FT and contend that it will likely suck on a kinect.

Thirdly, the kinect is made for console gamers. Which means it's probably not built with fidelity and accuracy in mind. C'mon, we're talking about Call of Duty type gamers used to having the console autoaim for a 'close enough' satisfaction appeal.

You really don't understand that Kinetic-like solutions will not do the HT trick just scanning your head, but can do that scanning shoulders, arms, etc. And if you use some "markers", the 3-point calculation using Kinetic can be MORE accurate and fast as TIR, FT, etc.

In a flight sim it will be great in 6DoF HT, much more natural, with much more realistic movement. It's a totaly new approach, and we will see how it will work in near future. Isn't just for "Call Of Duty" games. Open your mind and think about possibilities: with Kinetic you can have the same 3-point HT PLUS really 3D motion capture.

[CharveL]

Originally Posted by LoBiSoMeM

You really don't understand that Kinetic-like solutions will not do the HT trick just scanning your head, but can do that scanning shoulders, arms, etc. And if you use some "markers", the 3-point calculation using Kinetic can be MORE accurate and fast as TIR, FT, etc.

In a flight sim it will be great in 6DoF HT, much more natural, with much more realistic movement. It's a totaly new approach, and we will see how it will work in near future. Isn't just for "Call Of Duty" games. Open your mind and think about possibilities: with Kinetic you can have the same 3-point HT PLUS really 3D motion capture.

I would argue that I do, in fact, understand the "Kinetic-like" solutions better than you likely do. It takes a lot more processing power to figure out tracking points on a face or body than it does for 3 solid dots, and even more still to do so with any accuracy. I'm not saying it isn't possible just that I'm very skeptical for the first generation of these devices to be able to even come close to competing with TIR for the purpose of tracking head movement.

I do think this is the direction we're going though and it will be a good solution. Just not yet.

[Wolf_Rider]

its the kind of gizmo (after more development) which would work nice with a virtual reality helmet.
might be a bit hard to mount on top of the monitor for use as a headtracker, with its current size though

[LoBiSoMeM]

Originally Posted by CharveL

I would argue that I do, in fact, understand the "Kinetic-like" solutions better than you likely do. It takes a lot more processing power to figure out tracking points on a face or body than it does for 3 solid dots, and even more still to do so with any accuracy. I'm not saying it isn't possible just that I'm very skeptical for the first generation of these devices to be able to even come close to competing with TIR for the purpose of tracking head movement.

I do think this is the direction we're going though and it will be a good solution. Just not yet.

"Kinetic-like" solutions can traking just 3 dots like our today HT solutions. They use a normal camera that can trace the "3 dots" easily. The WAY they track these dots is that make these kind of solution much more flexible, with the TOF camera. If someone want great response just tracking 3 dots, it's easy to do, it's just a small part of the solution, isn't?

[Wolf_Rider]

is there game support yet? do you want to see it in CoD next month? will you not buy, if it isn't included?

oh... TIR is also some unique hardware unit which can do what a cheap webcam can't

[SsSsSsSsSnake]

wow just saw this thread,67 pages and counting,i dont thik i have the stamina to read it all but ia year ago i bought TIR 5 with the clip and pro clip, the pro clip was a pos and flimsy and a waste of money but the clip on the hat version i love, and if people can get the same thing for less money i say well done to them but i wouldnt be without it now.

[triplea007]

TRACKIR

I saw Ilya using trackir with COD on this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgy88KGDX-o

However, I've just installed the game and haven't found an "enable trackir" option anywhere. So I went to the Natural Point website for their supported game list but IL2 COD is not listed.

Just in case, I checked my trackir software and it says the game list is up to date. So... how can I enable trackir?

I'm running on an Intel i920, 15GB RAM, ATI 4870X2 (2 chips 1 card) with 2GB of video memory, and the game runs at very low FPS (on single player with all options on MEDIUM). I've read in some other threads that the laggyness is not caused by computer specs but by some bug that was apparently already fixed already with an automatic steam update. I got the update but I see no change.

I've disabled that epilepsy option and the game got a bit better, but it's still unplayable as it is. In a combat flight sim, a half-second lag makes a huge difference. I'm hoping trackir can help me enjoy the game but have no idea how to activate it. Any tips?

PS: The graphis are a huge improvement over the previous version. The landscapes are beautiful, but not much different from those of Rise of Flight. The water is amazing though.

[Achilles97]

Originally Posted by triplea007

TRACKIR

I saw Ilya using trackir with COD on this video:

However, I've just installed the game and haven't found an "enable trackir" option anywhere. So I went to the Natural Point website for their supported game list but IL2 COD is not listed.

Just in case, I checked my trackir software and it says the game list is up to date. So... how can I enable trackir?

I'm running on an Intel i920, 15GB RAM, ATI 4870X2 (2 chips 1 card) with 2GB of video memory, and the game runs at very low FPS (on single player with all options on MEDIUM). I've read in some other threads that the laggyness is not caused by computer specs but by some bug that was apparently already fixed already with an automatic steam update. I got the update but I see no change.

I've disabled that epilepsy option and the game got a bit better, but it's still unplayable as it is. In a combat flight sim, a half-second lag makes a huge difference. I'm hoping trackir can help me enjoy the game but have no idea how to activate it. Any tips?

PS: The graphis are a huge improvement over the previous version. The landscapes are beautiful, but not much different from those of Rise of Flight. The water is amazing though.

I didn't read the whole tread, so I may be off here.... but to answer your specific question about how to enable TrackIR, you don't have to enable it in a game. The TrackIR emulates mouse movement so any game that has mouse look will work with TrackIR. There are probably more complex games that have multiple view axes that would require a game-specific setting, but IL2 wasn't that way, so I assume CoD also looks around using the mouse. If that is the case, your TrackIR should work by default.

[albx]

Originally Posted by CharveL

I would argue that I do, in fact, understand the "Kinetic-like" solutions better than you likely do. It takes a lot more processing power to figure out tracking points on a face or body than it does for 3 solid dots, and even more still to do so with any accuracy. I'm not saying it isn't possible just that I'm very skeptical for the first generation of these devices to be able to even come close to competing with TIR for the purpose of tracking head movement.

I do think this is the direction we're going though and it will be a good solution. Just not yet.

probably you didn't understand that the process is done by the device and not by the pc?