Head Tracking with Cliffs of Dover

[Novotny]

Again, I don't know what NP do to protect their code, but it would not be worth their while to try and stop any code that did not infringe upon their copyright.

Let's be completely frank: this is about the cost of TrackIR. If it didn't cost as much as it did, you wouldn't be screaming about it. Coca-Cola protect their intellectual rights more vociferously than perhaps anyone on the planet, but you don't care about that because you can afford it.

Seriously, why don't you channel some of this energy into something worth fighting for?

[Stipe]

You are right. My bad. I wasn't aware while reading. GlovePIE, NewView, tir_attack, JTrackIR and ZoomTracker
Correction: "they are doing the same thing with no problems."
What ever that might mean. It's really hard to know what's true. Are they all using NP code or NP uses their code since some of the above are older than NP based on info from web?

[vicinity]

Originally Posted by Novotny

I bought a ford escort in 1987. Why can't I have their latest release for free?

No, and I wouldn't expect them to provide me a new trackir 5 if I had one of the old ones either, I would however appreciate them more as a customer if they continued to support their product. It's the same with games, if a company continues to support it and remove bugs etc. their customers will be more happy. I would buy a trackir tomorrow if I could afford it but I wouldn't be happy if they decided to stop supporting the product to encourage sales of their latest one.

Note: I am just saying why some people might not be happy about it, and not what they as a company should/shouldn't do.

[MadBlaster]

Originally Posted by Novotny

I just hope we're starting to get through to these chaps. I am totally for consumer rights, but they seem to have some really weird idea about what they're entitled to.

Novotny, NP has every right to encrypt their code. You don't understand the issue. This is about NP creating a barrier to a market via their NDA with 1C to maintain an artificial monopoly. Ten years ago, when they really were the only player, they had every right to make tons of money as a monoply. That was ten years ago! There are now many equivalent substitutes to TrackIR. This is the natural progression, economic theory. For example, everyone use to drive model A and model T Fords in the US and ford was a monoply. Now we all drive all kinds of cars. I direct you back to Blackdog's last post. He has a firm grasp on the issue imo and I believe he has good reputation on this board, whereas, mine may, admittedly, be questionable at this point.

[Blackdog_kt]

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider

until it is looked at and the missing bits and inaccuracies are pointed out

As i said, the fact that one sees a naturalpoint value in the registry or a similarly named dll doesn't mean it's the actual naturalpoint software, it's how one makes their custom-coded dll work with older titles: just "tell" the PC that it's NP when it's really not, because NP is the only thing the game will recognize. This is not equal to using NP software by any means, it's actually more like using an emulation or virtual machine tool like DosBox to run my old games from within windows.
Hence i stand by my opinion that if anything is getting "hacked" when using alternative methods, that is my own PC first and foremost.

To know if FT or any other tracking software is actually using NP files, you'd have to open both in some programming environment and look at them side by side. In fact, when my trackIR died and i started experimenting with freetrack, i checked that registry value and the dll has a different name. Until someone provides me with enough information that it is in fact a renamed NP file, i can't pass judgment on whether FT uses NP software. Telling my PC that the dll is NP to make it work doesn't mean it is true, i'm just instructing my PC to work with an alternative instruction set.

Long story short, we'll have to ask a lawyer or a programmer if we need more details

[Wolf_Rider]

Originally Posted by vicinity

No, and I wouldn't expect them to provide me a new trackir 5 if I had one of the old ones either, I would however appreciate them more as a customer if they continued to support their product. It's the same with games, if a company continues to support it and remove bugs etc. their customers will be more happy. I would buy a trackir tomorrow if I could afford it but I wouldn't be happy if they decided to stop supporting the product to encourage sales of their latest one.

Note: I am just saying why some people might not be happy about it, and not what they as a company should/shouldn't do.

I think we understand the sentiment Vicinity but you've got to keep in mind that with progress and further deveopment comes upset for some. Me? I like the idea of floppies but I can adapt and move on. It won't be long before IDE interface and platter HD's are relegated to the dustbin of history either.

{I don't drink coca cola, or similar, as it is just cr@p)


*Edit

Originally Posted by MadBlaster

Novotny, NP has every right to encrypt their code. You don't understand the issue. This is about NP creating a barrier to a market via their NDA with 1C to maintain an artificial monopoly.

Finally, you agree NP are allowed to encrypt their code - yeehar. It needs to be understood though there is no monopoly though... proven by Mouse Look (aka Freelook).

[Novotny]

And... relax.

I'm glad to see us all cooling off a bit. It is a bit silly, getting so angry about something so unimportant as gaming devices, isn't it? Especially as none of us have any vested interest.

Stipe, forgive me, but I haven't quite understood your last point.

Edit whilst posting:: I just noted Madblaster's response, and as such should read Blackdog's post, even though it's bound to take me into bloody March.

Edit:: Hi Blackdog! ignore the above

[Stipe]

Sorry M8, not my native language. All off the head tracking solutions from above are supposedly using the NP code, but NP has no problem with it.
Some off those HT are supposed to be around longer than NP track ir. If that is true, how come they are using NP code if NP wasn't around when they wrote their code. Hence, NP stole from them.
If I speculate, just for fun-The creators of freetrack are laid off employees from NP. That's why the feud between them.

[Novotny]

Well - and I'm entirely guessing here - perhaps NP used obvious and well known coding routines in the basics of their code, whilst their clever stuff existed at a higher level.

A bit like building a house. You can't copyright the concepts of foundations and brickwork, however you could sue someone if they knocked off a replica of your pride and joy, 'Cool House 1.0'.

I hope that makes some sense, I'm totally guessing and trying to get a feel for the issues.

[Wolf_Rider]

Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt

As i said, the fact that one sees a naturalpoint value in the registry or a similarly named dll doesn't mean it's the actual naturalpoint software, it's how one makes their custom-coded dll work with older titles: just "tell" the PC that it's NP when it's really not, because NP is the only thing the game will recognize.

NP doesn't seem to want their software used in such fashion though

Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt

This is not equal to using NP software by any means,

Telling my PC that the dll is NP to make it work doesn't mean it is true, i'm just instructing my PC to work with an alternative instruction set.

Long story short, we'll have to ask a lawyer or a programmer if we need more details

You know full well that unless NP software is installed on the machine, Freetrack can't use NP anything to access what it wants. The clear example of this is FSX. It has its Simmconnect, yet users pan that in favour of using the FT through NP route... this has been mentioned before.