Could 4.10 Update lock the SFS files again and reunite the online community?

[David603]

Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt

To be honest, i don't mind reuniting the community. What i totally object to however is reuniting it by force and implementing an overnight lack of choice.

If the day dawned that i'd lose all that extra content in the form of maps, aircraft and loadouts, i'd simply stop flying IL2 altogether and just wait for SoW

I wouldn't download the 4.10 patch, and just keep playing 4.09 modded. It would be a shame to miss out on the 4.10 content, there are some features and aircraft I'm really looking forward to, but at the end of the day, its not enough that I would choose it over all the mods out there.

Anyway, I doubt DT would want to do that. There is currently a healthy relationship between modders and DT, which has seen a number of projects start life as mods and become part of the official patches, so why ruin a good thing.

[MicroWave]

This discussion is rehashed every so often, so let's just repeat some facts which never seem to sink in.

1) Authors and/or distributors of the Il2 never authorized modding. According to the EULA, it is actually forbidden.
2) Oleg Maddox expressed his dissatisfaction that the protection was broken on several occasions.
3) Lack of legal action does not imply approval of mods.

[mazex]

Originally Posted by MicroWave

This discussion is rehashed every so often, so let's just repeat some facts which never seem to sink in.

1) Authors and/or distributors of the Il2 never authorized modding. According to the EULA, it is actually forbidden.
2) Oleg Maddox expressed his dissatisfaction that the protection was broken on several occasions.
3) Lack of legal action does not imply approval of mods.

And after this statement I really hope that you can testify that none of the TD members/contributors have ever been involved in any kind of modding of IL2, which as you say is illegal?

C'mon, the mods exist - and the thing that splits the community is the fact that we are not allowed to point out that the emperor has no clothes...

[MicroWave]

Originally Posted by mazex

And after this statement I really hope that you can testify that none of the TD members/contributors have ever been involved in any kind of modding of IL2, which as you say is illegal?

C'mon, the mods exist - and the thing that splits the community is the fact that we are not allowed to point out that the emperor has no clothes...

Why do you care? Would it change any of the points I made?
The fact that mods exist means what? Should we do something about it?
Considering what I stated before we have the following options:
1) Ignore mods
2) Introduce new protection scheme to prevent them (at least temporarily)
3) There is no 3rd option

[mazex]

Originally Posted by MicroWave

Why do you care? Would it change any of the points I made?
The fact that mods exist means what? Should we do something about it?
Considering what I stated before we have the following options:
1) Ignore mods
2) Introduce new protection scheme to prevent them (at least temporarily)
3) There is no 3rd option

Yes, stick the head in the sand if you like to. Reminds me of the managers at the large record companies that missed the wide open market opportunity that Apple, Spotify etc grabbed from the table in front of them... Soon there will be no market for music that is not online and they will sit there with their "there is no third option" mentality and no customers. I don't think that I have ever heard of a game developer that fights people that wants to create mods for their game? This is actually rather amusing - especially with the bunch of now made "official" mod developers that now rant about the others that are not in the club... Why not work together instead?

[The Kraken]

Originally Posted by mazex

Yes, stick the head in the sand if you like to. Reminds me of the managers at the large record companies that missed the wide open market opportunity that Apple, Spotify etc grabbed from the table in front of them... Soon there will be no market for music that is not online and they will sit there with their "there is no third option" mentality and no customers. I don't think that I have ever heard of a game developer that fights people that wants to create mods for their game? This is actually rather amusing - especially with the bunch of now made "official" mod developers that now rant about the others that are not in the club... Why not work together instead?

You are overestimating the importance of mods. With a few exceptions like Counterstrike they have no commercial significance, because there are too few people that buy games only when certain mods are available. As for Il2, its commercial value has basically ceased to exist years ago. Your comparison with the music industry is therefore a classic apples-oranges-example.

You also seem to have missed that in recent years, more and more games are closed tightly so that trivial stuff can be sold as "DLC" - the kind that nobody would shell out money for if it could be created by users. Inspired by the console market, where user mods are obviously not possible, this is spreading more and more into the PC games area as well. You don't have to like that development to realize it exists.

Anyway, I don't see where anyone "fights" the mods (any lawsuits I've missed?), and I also don't see where the developer comes into play here as you mentioned, because last time I've checked he's moved on to a new project. Which is quite a heavy investment that now has to compete with free developments of the old engine.

[Flanker35M]

S!

Let this dead and beaten horse rest in peace already People can still choose which version to use. Being a brownie nose purist or a mod fanboi helps no-one. Just play the damn game your way.

[mazex]

Originally Posted by The Kraken

You also seem to have missed that in recent years, more and more games are closed tightly so that trivial stuff can be sold as "DLC" - the kind that nobody would shell out money for if it could be created by users. Inspired by the console market, where user mods are obviously not possible, this is spreading more and more into the PC games area as well. You don't have to like that development to realize it exists.

Well, that is a good argument - but I really hope that it won't happen to SoW:BoB (and Oleg has said that support for user made content will be built into it).

An example comes to mind hearing the kids shout downstairs in front of the TV playing "Little Big Planet" on the PS3... There are more than 3 million user made levels for that game which is the main reason it still sells like butter - and they sell a load of silly DLC stuff like hats or costumes anyway...

[MicroWave]

Originally Posted by mazex

Yes, stick the head in the sand if you like to. Reminds me of the managers at the large record companies that missed the wide open market opportunity that Apple, Spotify etc grabbed from the table in front of them... Soon there will be no market for music that is not online and they will sit there with their "there is no third option" mentality and no customers. I don't think that I have ever heard of a game developer that fights people that wants to create mods for their game? This is actually rather amusing - especially with the bunch of now made "official" mod developers that now rant about the others that are not in the club... Why not work together instead?

Let's cut the story short.
You want DT to officially support and endorse mods? It's not going to happen. Until developers and/or publishers change their views, DT is not in a position to support modding even if we wanted to.

As far as I know Il2 series included officially a significant amount of 3rd party projects (3D objects, maps) long before the modding started. Even a plethora of 3rd party programs was welcomed (HL, DCG, MAT manager...). How is that fighting people that create content for the game? DT hasn't changed that policy.

And finally, I really sympathize with your resentment that now made "official" mod developers get different treatment. I really can't imagine what kind of devious actions they have taken in order to achieve that.

[mazex]

Originally Posted by MicroWave

Let's cut the story short.
You want DT to officially support and endorse mods? It's not going to happen.

Naturally I'm not talking about TD... Lets end this discussion now. You do a great job and I'm happy that there is still life in the old product while waiting for SoW:BoB!