soviet planes and 4.1x...

[Pursuivant]

Wasn't the Lagg-3 armed with VYA-23 the plane where the pilot was able to substitute guns for brakes?

The story I heard was that the plane's brakes failed on landing, so the pilot improvised by shooting his guns. The recoil was sufficient to slow the plane before he ran out of runway.

The story sounds too good to be true, but it could be real. Certainly, in IL-2 the VYA-23 is absolutely deadly as a bomber killer. For dogfighting, not so much, since the rate of fire is slow and the bullet trajectory and/or speed is very different from other weapons.

[1984]

well, apparently, i'm was really mistaken... and forgot what maybe need more power of explosives for destroy of heavy shell...

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

Wasn't the Lagg-3 armed with VYA-23 the plane where the pilot was able to substitute guns for brakes?

The story I heard was that the plane's brakes failed on landing, so the pilot improvised by shooting his guns. The recoil was sufficient to slow the plane before he ran out of runway.

The story sounds too good to be true, but it could be real.

in RL serial fighters never had vya-23, only several laggs of 21 or, most likely, 153 plant in late'41-early'42 (one of these laggs was captured by japan), but i know about these cases for yaks with ns-37/45, which really could be true, why not...

[IceFire]

Indeed... perhaps the 45mm armed Yak-9 but I doubt anything else would do it.

IL-2 does model the recoil effect on the ground, I'm not sure how realistically, but you can slow the plane down by firing your guns. The effect is negligible compared to the friction of the grass.... but I suppose with the extra large cannon it might make a big enough difference to matter.

[1984]

Originally Posted by IceFire

Indeed... perhaps the 45mm armed Yak-9 but I doubt anything else would do it.

yak-9k have muzzle brake, like and small series of laggs/yaks-7/il-2s with SH-37 - ie here attached pic with, apparently, exactly lagg with sh-37 from tests'42 (by the way, in reports noted what in compare with planes with ns-37, planes with sh-37 were much more stable when firing in flight, and if firing bursts too) - but force of recoil of ns-45, like and of ns-37, was very serious, in many books written what optimally firing by short bursts (2-3, sometimes, max. 5 shells) and accuracy/recoil very depends on speed of plane...

and in fact, i read lot of mentions about recoil on land/in air, but now can remember only what written about yak-9t one of best soviet aces, Vorozheykin -

Можно попробовать? - спросил я Герасимова, показывая на кнопку управления стрельбой пушки.

- Давай! - и Николай Семенович подал команду: - От самолета! - и пояснил: - Он при стрельбе на земле, как необъезженный конь, брыкается и может лягнуть.

Я нажал на кнопку. Всполохи пламени сверкнули перед "яком". Грохот ударил в уши. Самолет от сильной отдачи на метр отпрянул назад. Ого! Действительно брыкается.

by the way, further, he mentioned about HE shells with self destruction -

А где же шары? Наверное, проглядел. И я, еще дав два залпа, всматриваюсь вперед. Цепочка хвостатых разноцветных шаров вспорола синеву и где-то далеко-далеко разорвалась. "Значит, снаряды, чтобы не падать на землю, в воздухе самоликвидируются", - подумал я, разглядывая рябинки в небе от разрывов.

well, after first combat tests'43 pilots wanted other type of self destruction, but i not found clear information, this was realised or not, like and about new AP shells, so, at this moment i only can say what self destruction, apparently, was after 9-12 sec after shot (or after 3000 meters, information very different, maybe, again need to check book of nudelman)...

[1984]

that interesting and funny, only now i saw this page and found what sometimes i just repeated (with help of peoples from many forums/sites, of course) findings and what written in total by Alex Ruchkowsky...

in fact it's good because 2 similar opinions it's very indicative, we on right way...

highly recommend to read this page, especially, because it's already on english and no reasons to some my bad translations further, i will only add some information and want to focused on armament/performance...

(by the way, in addition to old drawings from 2010 on this site, if DT will do/fix 3d model of laggs, here apparently last and best or one of best - at this moment - drawings for this good deal)...

and just for fun, official report about NS-37, plus, attached some pics, on 1 belt with 20 mm shells for yak (i see 1 AP - 1 HE) and apparently, another good confirmation of belting-theory, belt with 23 mm shells for il-2 (i clearly see 3 AP - 1 HE or HEI)...

oh, and i remembered about one of, apparently, confirmations of weight of yak-9d as front fighter ie around 2900 kg (310 kg of fuel, around 20 kg of oil), well, here interesting document and description of plane for tests with 2880 kg...

[1984]

Originally Posted by 1984

...(by the way, in addition to old drawings from 2010 on this site, if DT will do/fix 3d model of laggs, here apparently last and best or one of best - at this moment - drawings for this good deal)...

here Paul_S, author of drawings for laggs, posted last and most full version plus small important description in archive...

and i heard before that DT interested in la-5, well, he have similar drawings and for la-5 of early series ie la-5 with fuselage of lagg-3 (in game now 3d model of, if i'm not mistaken, la-5 of around 1-4 series, with mixed performance of 1-8,9 and 9,10-xx series), but, apparently, at this moment no full version in one archive...

and, in fact, i again highly recommend for all who want know more, see all these pics...

[1984]

in offline long time i trying to write what found about il-2s, but, oh, this is so hard for one and ordinary guy like me, so, at this time, only about il-2 with 2 ns-37...

performance from compare 4.11 - weight 5732.96 kg (in tests, weight with full load, ie apparently 100 kg of bombs, around 6160 kg), 399 kph at sl (in first, apparently, tests speed around 387-391, but in game it's can be speed of late series) etc, just now personally i don't have full data...

weapons - prototype had and was tested with 60 shells for each ns-37, and 200 kg of normal bomb load, serial planes had 50 shells for each ns-37 and 100 kg (normal) or 200 kg (overload) of bomb load, and - apparently - never not had any rockets, and although info about this different, personally i not saw any photos with rockets and think at this moment what planes really not had rockets...

ie 2 cannons under wings + more weight = only bombs...

so, apparently, loads for il-2 with ns-37 can look like 100 shells in total as default - personally my opinion, repeat, need and different ammobelts - 120 as prototype (for fun), plus something like 2xfab-50, 4xfab-50, 2xfab-100, some light bombs like ao-xx and ptabs=200 kg max...

(maybe, DT can do for fun experimental il-2 with ns-45, as new load for il-2 with ns-37 or new plane, if i'm not mistaken, it's easy because plane just had new cannons (although, of course, in ideal need to do and all problems of ns-37/45)...

and il-2 with ns-37 never not had wings with "стрелка" (or "крыло стрельчатой конструкции") - постановление ГКО № 4554сс, 13.11.1943, "Об установке на самолетах Ил-2, выпускаемых заводом № 30 НКАП, пушек Волкова-Ярцева калибра 23 мм вместо пушек ОКБ-16 калибра 37 мм" - ie in nov'43 resolution about production of il-2 with vya-23 instead ns-37 because cannon was not really effective by several technical and other reasons...

another quote just about стрелка - "Как следует из документов, завод № 18 вышел на плановый уровень производства Ил-2 с металлическим крылом "со стрелкой" лишь к июню, а 1-й и 30-й заводы - к сентябрю 1944 г. Всего к концу года в ВВС поступило 7377 Ил-2 "крыло со стрелкой". При этом авиазаводы № 1 и № 30 выпускали самолеты и с металлическим, и с деревянным крылом. Все самолеты имели "стандартное" для 1944 г. наступательное вооружение: пушки ВЯ, пулеметы ШКАС, "эрэ-сы" и бомбы. Пушки НС-37 на них никогда не устанавливались."

etc, although need more information, apparently, could be exeptions or something like this...

well, and in very interesting "справочник по самолету ил-2, 1944", which recently was posted here, was confirmed information about 150 rounds for VUB-3 with UBT of il-2 two-seater (in game all il-2s have 200)...