Friday 2010-01-22 Screenshots AND Discussion Thread

[zaelu]

I saw the little movie and I would like to say this:

1. The movie was posted maybe as a response to the comments of some that were not impressed anymore by the still updates etc. So if those comments were not posted... maybe this video wasn't posted.
2. I am not particularly impressed by the movie... sorry. Is not something I didn't see before. I was expecting the shadows to move in the cockpit not to be prerendered and painted on it..you know. Also I think we saw them before in the Hurri right? I knew the level of detail of the Spit pit.
3. The shaking... is imho a fake try to express the tremor/shake the plane has in real life but is placed (like in many many other games) where it is suppose not to exist - in the eyes. As Protos said, the neck and head acts as dampers and I add that the eyes have "steady cam" tech in the muscles that operates them and are surrounded by fat and are full of "gelly" fluid that do the same... they absorb vibrations. On top of that comes the big "computer" on the back side of them... the brain that not only post process the image to cut out the undesired and hindering things but when the "conscience" analyze the reality through the see sense is taking "shaking" into account only to acknowledge the existence of those undesired and maybe worrying natural factors.
For me that is like the fake "bass" from small earplugs for audio players... you can swear it sounds with plenty of realistic bass but that's till you fell the real bass from some powerful speakers.
What's more funny, is that is obvious is just a cool "realistic" effect made by the devs, cause the gunsight reflex circle is not shaking almost at all... cause they know you couldn't aim if "the dance" would be on everything . And in this way looks even more silly. I would preffer removing it for good and just put a plugin for those buttshakers in the game market.
4. I would like to see the medium and atmospherics of SoW... I know I will have to wait more but this is what I want to see... No... I am not impressed of those clouds as they look just like IL-2 clouds just a bit longer... Is the same "synthetisation" of clouds that looks technically close to reality but very unrealistic in the end as a feel. Like the sounds in Il-2... kind of. The water reflection... ok... nice effect but water is still close to IL-2 one just 2-3 visual things added but, no real waves... no etc. If is not close to the one in SH4-5 is not counting as "Wow!". The ground is visible a bit in that movie and is just a place holder... so it is better not to be counted.

Sorry if I sound negativistic but, I believe the team doesn't need now a pleased crowd that goes "uh!-oh!" at anything the put out on the updates. They need feedback and if we the fans are not "harsh" a bit and "demanding" the real unseen crowd that will buy the game will do it after release by not buying it. Which will be bad.

Basically, besides the level of details that are very high in some places (poligon counts etc) the SoW wip updates still looks visually under that WoP game. No... the simulation can not count now, as is not depicted in the screenshots too much.
I sure hope that when all parts of the game will come together the game will shine but, the current state of updates just show be that there is still a lot of work to be done and the team is at it.

So... keep it up team!

[luthier]

Originally Posted by zaelu

I was expecting the shadows to move in the cockpit not to be prerendered and painted on it..

What on EARTH are you talking about?

[zaelu]

Originally Posted by luthier

What on EARTH are you talking about?

Oh... my exprimation was a bit out of... focus .

I was saying that it was not a surprise that the shadows were moving. Not that I didn't see them moving.

Like the movie said to us: "Hey look... moving shadows!"
And I go: "Oh nice... but I didn't think they were just painted on in the screenshots"

Sorry again for the confusing exprimation.

@virre89

I am not disrespectful at all... you are just too touchy. I don't know if you are part of the Maddox team but I'd expect one of the team members to be not too pleased with my comments and I wish my words will be taken just as a critique from a singular point of view... my own. If it helps pointing some areas of things that should be in focus for development updates, improvements or final release... I'd be happy it helped. But if you are not part of the team... then your reaction is just "fanboyism" and I think is very dangerous for a team to listen only praises.

[Avimimus]

Originally Posted by luthier

What on EARTH are you talking about?

Not really a Dr. Who fan, but this is a really well written episode that should explain... I think...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xasBd...eature=related

[airmalik]

Originally Posted by zaelu

I was expecting the shadows to move in the cockpit not to be prerendered and painted on it..you know. Also I think we saw them before in the Hurri right? I knew the level of detail of the Spit pit.

huh? don't know what you're on about mate.

Originally Posted by zaelu

I would preffer removing it for good and just put a plugin for those buttshakers in the game market.

that would be nice! I'd love to FEEL the pre-stall buffets, turbulence and hits.

cheers

[Insuber]

Hehe Zaelu your points from 2 to 4 are easily explained by the point 1...

Originally Posted by zaelu

I saw the little movie and I would like to say this:

1. The movie was posted maybe as a response to the comments of some that were not impressed anymore by the still updates etc. So if those comments were not posted... maybe this video wasn't posted.
2. I am not particularly impressed by the movie... sorry. Is not something I didn't see before. I was expecting the shadows to move in the cockpit not to be prerendered and painted on it..you know. Also I think we saw them before in the Hurri right? I knew the level of detail of the Spit pit.
3. The shaking... is imho a fake try to express the tremor/shake the plane has in real life but is placed (like in many many other games) where it is suppose not to exist - in the eyes. As Protos said, the neck and head acts as dampers and I add that the eyes have "steady cam" tech in the muscles that operates them and are surrounded by fat and are full of "gelly" fluid that do the same... they absorb vibrations. On top of that comes the big "computer" on the back side of them... the brain that not only post process the image to cut out the undesired and hindering things but when the "conscience" analyze the reality through the see sense is taking "shaking" into account only to acknowledge the existence of those undesired and maybe worrying natural factors.
For me that is like the fake "bass" from small earplugs for audio players... you can swear it sounds with plenty of realistic bass but that's till you fell the real bass from some powerful speakers.
What's more funny, is that is obvious is just a cool "realistic" effect made by the devs, cause the gunsight reflex circle is not shaking almost at all... cause they know you couldn't aim if "the dance" would be on everything . And in this way looks even more silly. I would preffer removing it for good and just put a plugin for those buttshakers in the game market.
4. I would like to see the medium and atmospherics of SoW... I know I will have to wait more but this is what I want to see... No... I am not impressed of those clouds as they look just like IL-2 clouds just a bit longer... Is the same "synthetisation" of clouds that looks technically close to reality but very unrealistic in the end as a feel. Like the sounds in Il-2... kind of. The water reflection... ok... nice effect but water is still close to IL-2 one just 2-3 visual things added but, no real waves... no etc. If is not close to the one in SH4-5 is not counting as "Wow!". The ground is visible a bit in that movie and is just a place holder... so it is better not to be counted.

Sorry if I sound negativistic but, I believe the team doesn't need now a pleased crowd that goes "uh!-oh!" at anything the put out on the updates. They need feedback and if we the fans are not "harsh" a bit and "demanding" the real unseen crowd that will buy the game will do it after release by not buying it. Which will be bad.

Basically, besides the level of details that are very high in some places (poligon counts etc) the SoW wip updates still looks visually under that WoP game. No... the simulation can not count now, as is not depicted in the screenshots too much.
I sure hope that when all parts of the game will come together the game will shine but, the current state of updates just show be that there is still a lot of work to be done and the team is at it.

So... keep it up team!

[virre89]

Originally Posted by zaelu

I saw the little movie and I would like to say this:

1. The movie was posted maybe as a response to the comments of some that were not impressed anymore by the still updates etc. So if those comments were not posted... maybe this video wasn't posted.
2. I am not particularly impressed by the movie... sorry. Is not something I didn't see before. I was expecting the shadows to move in the cockpit not to be prerendered and painted on it..you know. Also I think we saw them before in the Hurri right? I knew the level of detail of the Spit pit.
3. The shaking... is imho a fake try to express the tremor/shake the plane has in real life but is placed (like in many many other games) where it is suppose not to exist - in the eyes. As Protos said, the neck and head acts as dampers and I add that the eyes have "steady cam" tech in the muscles that operates them and are surrounded by fat and are full of "gelly" fluid that do the same... they absorb vibrations. On top of that comes the big "computer" on the back side of them... the brain that not only post process the image to cut out the undesired and hindering things but when the "conscience" analyze the reality through the see sense is taking "shaking" into account only to acknowledge the existence of those undesired and maybe worrying natural factors.
For me that is like the fake "bass" from small earplugs for audio players... you can swear it sounds with plenty of realistic bass but that's till you fell the real bass from some powerful speakers.
What's more funny, is that is obvious is just a cool "realistic" effect made by the devs, cause the gunsight reflex circle is not shaking almost at all... cause they know you couldn't aim if "the dance" would be on everything . And in this way looks even more silly. I would preffer removing it for good and just put a plugin for those buttshakers in the game market.
4. I would like to see the medium and atmospherics of SoW... I know I will have to wait more but this is what I want to see... No... I am not impressed of those clouds as they look just like IL-2 clouds just a bit longer... Is the same "synthetisation" of clouds that looks technically close to reality but very unrealistic in the end as a feel. Like the sounds in Il-2... kind of. The water reflection... ok... nice effect but water is still close to IL-2 one just 2-3 visual things added but, no real waves... no etc. If is not close to the one in SH4-5 is not counting as "Wow!". The ground is visible a bit in that movie and is just a place holder... so it is better not to be counted.

Sorry if I sound negativistic but, I believe the team doesn't need now a pleased crowd that goes "uh!-oh!" at anything the put out on the updates. They need feedback and if we the fans are not "harsh" a bit and "demanding" the real unseen crowd that will buy the game will do it after release by not buying it. Which will be bad.

Basically, besides the level of details that are very high in some places (poligon counts etc) the SoW wip updates still looks visually under that WoP game. No... the simulation can not count now, as is not depicted in the screenshots too much.
I sure hope that when all parts of the game will come together the game will shine but, the current state of updates just show be that there is still a lot of work to be done and the team is at it.

So... keep it up team!

Gimme a break , one of the most disrespectful posts i've read in quite a while. You assume to f*king much tech out of a video you know nothing about.. this will be the real deal compared to the arcade shooters out there, sorry you can't have everything.. but its still a game in some sort.. otherwise just go drive a real damn spitfire or build your own game..water / clouds look like IL2? ye right and i am Arnold Schwarzenegger..

Keep it up Oleg , the team and let us hear the engine roars next time

[Romanator21]

Quite frankly, I don't see a problem with the water in this game. From the air it looks just fine. Again, there is an issue of visual range. In SH the water is nice, but I noticed in their videos that the waves start to repeat and form a "quilt" pattern after less than a mile. This is fine if the camera is at the surface, which is 99% of the time in SH.

A flight sim has to render water waves which should not have a visible pattern for maybe 10 miles at least. So, in the same way that ground textures will not appear in a flight sim the way they do in a FPS, so too will the water.

The visual representation of the shaking is maybe much. As has been said, there is a dampening effect because of our biology. It should be felt, not seen, but that is impossible to do for a computer game.

My suggestion, would be to have shaking of loose items (like the canopy pull handle) while dampening the camera vibrations.

Save for the vibrations, I would say the movement of the head was very realistic. There's obviously compression into the seat from G's and it goes side to side while making hard banks. Very nice.

However, I noticed a bug with your gunsight. It seems to show a hard horizon and brown color above.



I would imagine that because of this the gunsight is more than just a texture. So, will it be refracting light?

The clouds look good. I would like to know of there will be a greater variety of shapes besides the "cotton balls" that show up after a rainy day. Will there be changes in thickness (up and down)? Will there be a possibility of seeing a towering cumulonimbus maturing into the anvil shape? Will there be multiple layers? Will high altitude clouds also change, or are they bound with the map as in Il-2?

[major_setback]

[QUOTE=Romanator21;138939]

....

The visual representation of the shaking is maybe much. As has been said, there is a dampening effect because of our biology. It should be felt, not seen, but that is impossible to do for a computer game. ....


....However, I noticed a bug with your gunsight. It seems to show a hard horizon and brown color above.



QUOTE]

I think Ilya maybe forgot that Spitfires don't have combat flaps, and they got stuck..it looks like the sort of buffetting you get with (stuck) full flaps to me.

The gunsight is slightly shaded/tinted I think, or polarized maybe (I know some aircraft in WWII had polarized gunsights) - so the sky can look darker through them, and reflections are cut from the shine on the sea.

Great video 1C!!!!! We want more

[=815=TooCooL]

Originally Posted by virre89

Gimme a break , one of the most disrespectful posts i've read in quite a while. You assume to f*king much tech out of a video you know nothing about.. this will be the real deal compared to the arcade shooters out there, sorry you can't have everything.. but its still a game in some sort.. otherwise just go drive a real damn spitfire or build your own game..water / clouds look like IL2? ye right and i am Arnold Schwarzenegger..

Keep it up Oleg , the team and let us hear the engine roars next time

Oh no Here comes a fanboy.
I second Zealu's points.
Seeing that video, i know it is beta, but anyone but fanboy can see and speak what doesn't look right.
Self shadow is gorgeous and poly count is impressive but cloud and water is that of il-2.
How about coop with gaijin entertainment guys.(kidding, that would be impossible)
Their flight game is no where close to il-2 in sim aspect but did outstanding job in graphic, atmosphere, and clouds. (Behold overcast clouds in wop)
I know you're busy, but I appreciate you taking the time to play WoP and find what is missing in il-2 and BOB beta video.
Writing it on phone so plz bear my spells.