Why aren't undead immune to poison?

[Karlos]

I've been having this and similar thougths over last several years of playing KB games. But now, with the undead onslaught, it was rattling in my head all the time.

All undead should be immune to poison, except the necromancers. You shouldn't be able to affect ghosts in any way, except by magic or astral damage (so no poison, fire, frost, melee or projectile damage).

Flying creatures shouldn't be affected by the giant's jump. Machines should be completely immune to poison damage too, as well as more resistant to physical and fire dmg. Cyclops should have like 70 phys resist. Basically all creatures' resistances should be much higher in order to make more sense (ent to physical, polar bears and most vikings to frost, plants to poison, fairies to magic etc.) And I'm sure there are other possibilities.

[fastjaw24]

Originally Posted by Karlos

I've been having this and similar thougths over last several years of playing KB games. But now, with the undead onslaught, it was rattling in my head all the time.

All undead should be immune to poison, except the necromancers. You shouldn't be able to affect ghosts in any way, except by magic or astral damage (so no poison, fire, frost, melee or projectile damage).

Flying creatures shouldn't be affected by the giant's jump. Machines should be completely immune to poison damage too, as well as more resistant to physical and fire dmg. Cyclops should have like 70 phys resist. Basically all creatures' resistances should be much higher in order to make more sense (ent to physical, polar bears and most vikings to frost, plants to poison, fairies to magic etc.) And I'm sure there are other possibilities.

Have you ever met a ghost in real life to see if they are actually immune to all the stuff you listed. So is making sense only means what you think they should be immune too? Who is to say you can not damage ghost with physical because they are not corporeal. Well then should they not be able to damage you if you can not hit them? I mean fair is fair.

Giant's jump should affect flying creatures cause you still have a shock wave and flying creatures fly by moving air and a shock wave affects the ground as well as the air that the flying creature is using to stay off the ground.

Why should a machine be resistant to fire and physical. Don't most machines have some form of cooling so they do not get too hot? Heat will damage most all machines where as as long as they are running cold will not damage them as much. And on physical damage most machines need all moving parts working cause usually one damaged part means complete failure so physical resistance does not quite make sense unless they wear body armor like the Knight or Paladin does and gets increase resistance to physical.I will agree machines should be immune to poison damage.

Now on plants you think they should be immune to poison damage. I tell you what go fill up a bottle drain cleaner and dump it in the potter of one of your plants and tell me what happens to it. That is poison and you let me know how long your plant goes with poison on it.

Polar Bears and Vikings and withstand cold but extreme cold would kill them just like anything else so they are only partially immune like they should be.

Thing is most all creatures in the game have some form of resistance and some have quite a bit. So you can not say that most resistance in the game do not make sense. Everyone has their opinion on ghost and ghost are different in every single game you play and every movie you watch so this is only 1 version of a ghost and its not to inaccurate how they portray one.

[Zechnophobe]

Originally Posted by Karlos

I've been having this and similar thougths over last several years of playing KB games. But now, with the undead onslaught, it was rattling in my head all the time.

All undead should be immune to poison, except the necromancers. You shouldn't be able to affect ghosts in any way, except by magic or astral damage (so no poison, fire, frost, melee or projectile damage).

Flying creatures shouldn't be affected by the giant's jump. Machines should be completely immune to poison damage too, as well as more resistant to physical and fire dmg. Cyclops should have like 70 phys resist. Basically all creatures' resistances should be much higher in order to make more sense (ent to physical, polar bears and most vikings to frost, plants to poison, fairies to magic etc.) And I'm sure there are other possibilities.

Because balance.

[Karlos]

Originally Posted by fastjaw24

Have you ever met a ghost in real life to see if they are actually immune to all the stuff you listed. So is making sense only means what you think they should be immune too? Who is to say you can not damage ghost with physical because they are not corporeal. Well then should they not be able to damage you if you can not hit them? I mean fair is fair.

Giant's jump should affect flying creatures cause you still have a shock wave and flying creatures fly by moving air and a shock wave affects the ground as well as the air that the flying creature is using to stay off the ground.

Why should a machine be resistant to fire and physical. Don't most machines have some form of cooling so they do not get too hot? Heat will damage most all machines where as as long as they are running cold will not damage them as much. And on physical damage most machines need all moving parts working cause usually one damaged part means complete failure so physical resistance does not quite make sense unless they wear body armor like the Knight or Paladin does and gets increase resistance to physical.I will agree machines should be immune to poison damage.

Now on plants you think they should be immune to poison damage. I tell you what go fill up a bottle drain cleaner and dump it in the potter of one of your plants and tell me what happens to it. That is poison and you let me know how long your plant goes with poison on it.

Polar Bears and Vikings and withstand cold but extreme cold would kill them just like anything else so they are only partially immune like they should be.

Thing is most all creatures in the game have some form of resistance and some have quite a bit. So you can not say that most resistance in the game do not make sense. Everyone has their opinion on ghost and ghost are different in every single game you play and every movie you watch so this is only 1 version of a ghost and its not to inaccurate how they portray one.

Thanks for your take, sadly, you misunderstood me or didn't understand at all. I won't comment on your comments about ghosts and such, it's for the better I think

But as for the misunderstanding, I didn't say plants should be immune to poison, just more resistant.

And I'm not saying most resistances in the game don't make sense. Only that they'd make more sense if they were higher. That's it. Frankly, your post is ridiculously overcritical. I get the feeling from it that had I written sun comes out every morning and blood is red, you'd reject it summarily too

I mean, c'mon, why so defensive, I didn't say your wife is ugly for chrissake.

[Karlos]

Originally Posted by Zechnophobe

Because balance.

Yeah, balance would have to be adjusted, but it could be doable. Anyway, it'd be much more fun coz you'd have to use different units all the time, you couldn't just bum rush beserkers in the middle of three ghost stacks and start slashing away. You could have a five slot reserve or even more and change your units for different mobs and so on.

[Zechnophobe]

Originally Posted by Karlos

Yeah, balance would have to be adjusted, but it could be doable. Anyway, it'd be much more fun coz you'd have to use different units all the time, you couldn't just bum rush beserkers in the middle of three ghost stacks and start slashing away. You could have a five slot reserve or even more and change your units for different mobs and so on.

Except that is already a really bad idea. Berserkers deal half damage to Ghosts, which is pretty bad, and if you are 'bum rushing them' into such fights, you probably aren't handling the fight well. Especially true since those ghosts will life leech off you.

I think the resistance model the game uses is actually nicely nuanced. You have some units that are incredibly effective due to damage/resist combos. For instance Royal Snakes own the heck out of Bone Dragons, and Archdemons completely demolish red/green/black dragons. Fire dragonflies are awful vs red or black dragons, but lake dragon flies are lethal.

But those are extremes, not all fights should have them or you get rock-paper-scissors effects. Poison damage type is already often weak due to an entire race of troops that resist it at 50%f, and a bunch of other units that do it too. Whereas magic damage is generally not resisted, and only one unit in the game resists Astral Damage. (Or at least, I think they do, they did in Crossworlds).

Mechanics trumps realism, this is a good rule to live by. Realism can INFORM mechanics, and it does in KB. THis is why all the units that you've listed above have resistances in line with what you suggest, just not as extreme. Ghosts don't take much physical damage, plants and undead are highly resistant to poison, and droids and cyclopses have a lot of physical resist.

[fastjaw24]

Originally Posted by Karlos

Thanks for your take, sadly, you misunderstood me or didn't understand at all. I won't comment on your comments about ghosts and such, it's for the better I think

But as for the misunderstanding, I didn't say plants should be immune to poison, just more resistant.

And I'm not saying most resistances in the game don't make sense. Only that they'd make more sense if they were higher. That's it. Frankly, your post is ridiculously overcritical. I get the feeling from it that had I written sun comes out every morning and blood is red, you'd reject it summarily too

I mean, c'mon, why so defensive, I didn't say your wife is ugly for chrissake.

It was not a defensive post, you offered your opinion and I offered a rebuttal opinion against your opinion. It was not a personal attack on you as a person. It was why I feel the game does a good job of balance and portraying the resistances as they should be and I feel a lot resistances in the game make perfect sense.

If you post your opinion and someone disagrees and list why they disagree with you in mature matter do not feel like you were getting trolled,flamed, or hated on here. I did agree with one thing you said just not most of it cause my opinion is different than yours.

I would have to disagree on plants should have higher resistance to poison when in sense wise plants are very sensitive to poison so if anything they should take more damage from poison. I mean think about it if light a plant on fire and burn the top of it there is a chance as long as the roots are not damaged it could grow back even if you burn it too a crisp. Most plants have no problem with cold weather so maybe they should add some cold resistance but say you dump poison on a plant it kills it cause it kills the roots.

I think Black Dragons could use a little less resistance cause they are basically god mode against any mob that does anything but physical damage.

But that is just my opinion don't take it so personal and by the way its christ's sake.=)

[namad]

1) weak units can't have tons of super strong immunities, also I think it might be reasonable for the undead to be immune to poisoning, yep that's work, it'd make fluff and balance sense and be reasonable!!!!


think of it like this, if you shoot a giant hose full of poison at a robot, the robot will still probably break! if a poisonous snake bites you really hard you'll still probably get dented?


ghosts are already really really good against physical damage! ICE creations and mechanical units are really great against poison...


I think immunity to poisonous the debuff effect some poisonous attacks cause would be a cool undead racial ability to have, but if undead were too much stronger they'd just be brokenly stupidly OP..also necromancers are basically a bad translation of liches, they're fully undead and 1stack of necromancers can use the raise dead ability on another stack of necromancers so yeah... they should probably have been translated to liches... not sure why they didn't....not sure why fan patches don't correct it either

[tiberiu]

Originally Posted by Karlos

I've been having this and similar thougths over last several years of playing KB games. But now, with the undead onslaught, it was rattling in my head all the time.

All undead should be immune to poison, except the necromancers. You shouldn't be able to affect ghosts in any way, except by magic or astral damage (so no poison, fire, frost, melee or projectile damage).

Flying creatures shouldn't be affected by the giant's jump. Machines should be completely immune to poison damage too, as well as more resistant to physical and fire dmg. Cyclops should have like 70 phys resist. Basically all creatures' resistances should be much higher in order to make more sense (ent to physical, polar bears and most vikings to frost, plants to poison, fairies to magic etc.) And I'm sure there are other possibilities.

I agree that it makes sense what you say,, for a zombie to be immune to poison and for a polar bear to be resistant to cold. But the bad part of all of this is that it would make the game even more easier which I don't think is desireable. For example when you would fight phisical damage dealing armies, simply take some hugely resistant creatures to phisical and you beat them with ease.

[skycrow]

Originally Posted by Karlos

I've been having this and similar thougths over last several years of playing KB games. But now, with the undead onslaught, it was rattling in my head all the time.
...

This is a off topic reply.

I am just a bit curious about why these thoughts could haunt you for several years .