BETA PATCH v.1.08.18956 - August 3, 2012

[Baron]

Originally Posted by Stirwenn

SpitIIa's FM as it is clearly show that an idiot can not fly this plane : constant eye looking over oil temp, water temp, rpm, boost and the blue over you in a badly six position.... i do not want a bone Winger, i just want to count 5 mns on full power as it should.
Personnal thinking : 109 is a bicycle for lazy guys !

Dont blame the blue because german engineers focused on how to enable their fighter pilots to concentrate on shooting down enemy's, not nursing your plane so it doesn't brake when you need it the least.

You all wanted realism and you got it. And btw, 109 cant run flat out indefinitely either. If you do it wrong it will brake just as fast as the Spit. Last time i broke the engine well within the 5 min because i didn't pay attention. Dont know about the rest of you but personally i run with oil/water rads fully open 99% of the time and learn how to deal with that rather than the engine braking down, witch is even worse than losing top speed.
You could all ask the servers to turn off CEM entirely but then you wouldnt be cool anymore. (imo though, this CEM everyone is raving about is all but the same as IL2, it`s just made more complicated to use by forcing one to click this god da* cockpit dials and nobs when one needs to focus in more important things. (As far as i know we still cant assign vital functions to keys, can we? Isnt working for me at least ). The only differance imo is that you could do things for longer in IL2, run wep, on overheat etc. Remeber the "never ever overheating" spit in IL2 that was NEVER fixed?

Did a test on that thing way back and ran full out till the fuel tank was bone dry and all i got was a slight reduction in top speed. Funny times.

[jimbop]

Originally Posted by Baron

Dont blame the blue because german engineers focused on how to enable their fighter pilots to concentrate on shooting down enemy's, not nursing your plane so it doesn't brake when you need it the least.

You all wanted realism and you got it. And btw, 109 cant run flat out indefinitely either. If you do it wrong it will brake just as fast as the Spit. Last time i broke the engine well within the 5 min because i didn't pay attention.

You all could ask the servers to turn off CEM entirely but then you wouldnt be cool anymore.

How did you break a 109? Open rads, full throttle, keep the revs under the red line if e3 (don't even have to worry about that with e4). You will go until your fuel runs out.

[Sturm_Williger]

Originally Posted by Stirwenn

SpitIIa's FM as it is clearly show that an idiot can not fly this plane : constant eye looking over oil temp, water temp, rpm, boost and the blue over you in a badly six position.... i do not want a bone Winger, i just want to count 5 mns on full power as it should.
Personnal thinking : 109 is a bicycle for lazy guys !

Sooo, you want realism, but you also want a Spitfire with the same (lower) cockpit workload as the 109 ?

[Baron]

Originally Posted by jimbop

How did you break a 109? Open rads, full throttle, keep the revs under the red line if e3 (don't even have to worry about that with e4). You will go until your fuel runs out.

Thats what im saying, pay attention to your revs and temp, witch i didnt. fiddling back and fourth with rads to always have high speed will, very easily, make your engine go "bom" once you push it in a df. I dont try to get maximum speed all the time, i try to keep the engine as cool as humanly possible until i need the power/speed (imo, i dont need it trying to chase down a spit diving to safety, there are plenty where he came from so to speak) Sometimes i try to keep it as cool as possible even when i do need top speed/power. Like i said, nothing is worse than having a broken engine. In this game the engine will brake if everyone treat it like they did in Il2, just saying.

[jimbop]

Originally Posted by Sturm_Williger

Sooo, you want realism, but you also want a Spitfire with the same (lower) cockpit workload as the 109 ?

Of course not. But you cannot fly it as instructed in the manual now! The revs have to stay absurdly low and the topspeed is far too slow whether in absolute terms or relative to other planes in the sim.

[ATAG_Snapper]

Originally Posted by Winger

well, i guess we will see what the next patch brings. I would not wonder if the 109s are the bones not too far in the future.

Winger

I well understand you thinking that -- I've been one of the loudest whiners. But that is the farthest thing from what most of us Red-whiners want. (note that I said "most" )

As was mentioned earlier, the real 109 E-model and the Spitfire Mark I models were a close match; much closer than depicted currently in Cliffs of Dover. (There weren't many Spit IIa's in the BoB, and they only reached the squadrons towards the end. Plus they weren't a huge improvement in performance over the Ia).

Remember the IIa "über-Sissyfire" of the retail version (1.5950)? In actual numbers its performance wasn't far off what the actual Spitfire Ia (yes -- Ia) performance was -- at least at low/intermediate altitudes. The CoD 109's were (and still are) too slow in comparison. There are some strong concerns about the IIa über-Sissyfire's energy retention in hard maneuvring. I did some quick Immelmann turns and found that I lost almost exactly 100 mph doing each one -- this admittedly proves very little other than addressing a statement made that the Über-Sissyfire lost NO speed doing this maneuvre. That said, further testing needed to be done to verify that this aircraft's flight model was accurate (or needed adjustment as many believed).

In the few times I got to fly the IIa on the ATAG server (they were limited in number available and got snapped up quickly) I have to admit it was exhilarating to find myself not just matching a zoom climb of a formerly untouchable 109....but actually CLOSING on it to within convergence range!!! Zowie!!! That said, it was not rewarding in all honesty. It was an unfair advantage against the too-slow-modelled 109's. To make matters worse, there were many 109 experten who could still outfly and outshoot me to knock me out of the air in my superior aircraft -- which was embarassing.

It's got to be frustrating hearing us Red pilots whining after each patch. It's even more frustrating for us to anxiously await each patch then find the Spitfires have been borked further each time. I don't know where you got your information that each patch has made the Spitfires better and better, but you're dead wrong on that. As I said, they've been getting worse and worse with each patch. Obviously the devs have not been testing these aircraft, otherwise how could they account that in the earlier beta 100-octane Hurricanes couldn't even start online? Clearly they never even measured these patched Spits and Hurries for even basic performance since they glaringly are so very, very wrong! And clearly you haven't, either, to make the statements you have in this thread.

We want the Spitfires fixed. We want the Hurricanes fixed. We want the 109's fixed. And we want the 110's fixed. All of them, or it's no good.

[Matt255]

After noticing that 95% of the posts in this thread are about FMs only, i was so excited about this patch and what it would offer.

Got a big performance boost and didn't experienced a single crash yet. Also didn't notice any annoying bugs (yet).

It's now finally at enjoyable state. Very happy with it for now. Thanks alot for your work. I'm actually gaining a bit of interest in BoM now.

[jayrc]

Thanks Dev team, very happy with this patch, I'm able to turn a couple settings up, no longer running anything on low, everything high or medium, clouds look great, I appreciate your hard work and can't wait to fly the F models

[camber]

Originally Posted by Winger

When all Brits always start at Hawkinge with loads of 109s above them with tons of energy no wonder. Just start in in the NE at Ramsgate....

I had a fight against a spit yesterday. Close to ramsgate at almost even energylevels. I had a sligh advantage. We were "dancing" like 10-15 minutes in like 2,5-3km height. I could hardly get into good firing position and i am not the best shot there is. This spit did NOT AT ALL look to me as if it had any engineissues.
I went vertical after each attack and he avoided hoizontally each time. The Spitpilot certaily knew his way around. We fought until he got help from another spit. I had to run then since my fuel went empty.
There felt nothing wrong for me in this fight. Just like a fight in this height has too look if two experienced pilots face each other and one of them has a slight energyadvantage.

Hmm, you are describing the fight reds are always complaining about! Let me try to explain it from a red perspective, as I've had plenty of them

I was fighting a 109 who started with slight advantage. Every time I turned into him he pulled up into a long zoom climb into the stall. If I pulled my nose anywhere near him, I stalled within a couple of seconds. I couldn't increase rpms above 2700rpm or use overboost because my engine would just blow a minute later. All I could do is pull a tight break and try to keep track of him, so I could break again at the right time. Every zoom got him more advantage and I never had even a chance of taking a shot.

Lucky he kept missing each time with the cannon and I just copped a few MG rounds. I just hoped I could keep this going until another Spit arrived. One appeared co-alt with him, so he turned away and disengaged and we didn't see him again as it we can't catch him at any alt.

I certainly don't begrudge you these useful tactics. I guess this match -up would be fine if it was historically correct for performance, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Of course demanding historically correct planes to have historically incorrect fights (1v1) is a bit funny anyway.

I just hope you weren't one of the 109 drivers lecturing me when I used the same tactics in the old Spit IIa Once I got a right earbashing in chat from Mk Mr X for dishonorably flying the IIa and ruining his technique, it was hilarious.

camber

[_YoYo_]

Tested the new patch. Just 20 minutes but good way.

B6, the first alpha/beta/gamma/sigma good patch. I can enjoy CoD again.
Just still no Cirrus clouds lik in 1.05.950:



Keep this level and thx. Waiting for the new improvmenets,