Why the need for German planes?

[M3-SRT8]

Sure. But ol' Anton has no problem with anybody flying and fighting for that Communist Utopia, the (former) USSR.

Again, how many people were outright executed, worked, beaten, and starved to death under Stalin? 20 million? 25? More?

...and, Lenin, Khruschchev, Brezhnev, and the rest of the Politburo, how many did they do in? According to Guiness, collectively it's around 66.5 million people.

Just because these people didn't agree to these monsters vision of a "workers paradise."

Go ahead and lock the thread. My point's made.

LJB

[Lightsped]

I still think it would be more fun for everyone if we could fly for the Luftwaffe. This has been done in numerous video games in the past. By flying for the Luftwaffe, it would allow the game to expand alot more by giving players more choices and more experience with the various types of planes.

From a marketing/money standpoint it makes sense. Just look at all of the COD games. And that is just one game title.....

[H Lecter]

Originally Posted by M3-SRT8

Sure. But ol' Anton has no problem with anybody flying and fighting for that Communist Utopia, the (former) USSR.

Doesn't matter. Anton and his brother (?) Kyril are the producers. They make the game the way they believe is 'right' and we as customers can provide feedback and/or decide not to buy it.

Political discussions are more than useless in this forum and will only create hardship among the forum members.

[Anton Yudintsev]

Originally Posted by M3-SRT8

Sure. But ol' Anton has no problem with anybody flying and fighting for that Communist Utopia, the (former) USSR.

Again, how many people were outright executed, worked, beaten, and starved to death under Stalin? 20 million? 25? More?

First of all, I am not against fighting for axis airbattles. I was against them in Birds of Prey. It is our first console flight-sim, and we were going to make it as flawless as possible.
Fighting for Axis, even in game, is not 100% ethical.

Second, please, don't re-type bullshit about USSR. Of course, there were executions, but nothing close to 20 million, even number of all prisoners (with criminals, like thiefs or bandits), not all of them executed, is less than that. Less than 1 million of executions (but close to), is something very huge, but it isn't anyhow close to what Axis did. It's something close to what USA did to thier people during great depression.

Also, the main differences is reasoning. Axis - were executing people because of their _race_. Stalin - was just a dictator, he was trying to keep power (and did it not for his own wealth, but for the country - that's was how he understood 'lesser evil' concept).

Every country has it's black pages. But in Birds of Prey gamers (like real soldiers of world war2) are not fighting for Stalin or against some of his opposers. Those days people were fighting for freedom, for survival - against evil. Not all of Germans were Nazis of course. Not even most of them. But all German soldiers were fighting for Nazi.

It doesn't mean that fighting for Axis airforce in any game is 100% unethical.
But on the other hand, fighting for Allies IS 100% ethical.

[Lightsped]

I am not really interested in the good and the bad things that various countries have done in the past. Save that for the history books.....

I am interested in having a fun flying game with more replayablity and options. This idea is not something new as many game publishers/developers have produced high selling games featuring Allies and the Axis powers of WW2....

Anyone here ever heard of LucasArts "Their Finest Hour" or "Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe"??? Both of these WW2 flying games were made in the 1990s, and were very successful.... How about Call of Duty? Are those who play as the Germans or Japananese committing unethical acts??

[Shub]

I really appreciate to read Anton's point of view concerning the german's campaign. I have read the full previous thread concerning the same issue and would like to thank him for taking the time to reply to us.

Anton, I assume that people are mainly refering to the starvation in Ukrain when talking of a 20 million death toll for USSR...

Anyway, I respect the devs' decision concerning the german campaign. But, still, I would welcome more german or japanese sp missions.

[H Lecter]

Originally Posted by Shub

Anyway, I respect the devs' decision concerning the german campaign. But, still, I would welcome more german or japanese sp missions.

Concluding from Anton's reply in this thread I guess there could be an Axis campaign in BoP II or eventually as DLC...

[BadByte]

Originally Posted by Lightsped

Anyone here ever heard of LucasArts "Their Finest Hour" or "Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe"??? Both of these WW2 flying games were made in the 1990s, and were very successful....

Loved SWOTL it is the game I have spent most hours on and it is one of very rare games one could fight as the axis and "win" in campaign mode. To this date I have not found a flight game with a more fun career mode.

[GabeFan]

Originally Posted by Lightsped

Anyone here ever heard of LucasArts "Their Finest Hour" or "Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe"??? Both of these WW2 flying games were made in the 1990s, and were very successful.... H

SWOTL was such a great game! Logged many hours of flying time on that game. Being able to choose between flying for the Axis or Allies was fun. And it wasn't very difficult to actually fly the planes. It wasn't a hardcore SIM that you have to take hours just to learn to keep the plane in the air, which was nice. You could jump right in and start flying...

[M3-SRT8]

Originally Posted by Anton Yudintsev

First of all, I am not against fighting for axis airbattles. I was against them in Birds of Prey. It is our first console flight-sim, and we were going to make it as flawless as possible.
Fighting for Axis, even in game, is not 100% ethical.

Second, please, don't re-type bullshit about USSR. Of course, there were executions, but nothing close to 20 million, even number of all prisoners (with criminals, like thiefs or bandits), not all of them executed, is less than that. Less than 1 million of executions (but close to), is something very huge, but it isn't anyhow close to what Axis did. It's something close to what USA did to thier people during great depression.

Also, the main differences is reasoning. Axis - were executing people because of their _race_. Stalin - was just a dictator, he was trying to keep power (and did it not for his own wealth, but for the country - that's was how he understood 'lesser evil' concept).

Every country has it's black pages. But in Birds of Prey gamers (like real soldiers of world war2) are not fighting for Stalin or against some of his opposers. Those days people were fighting for freedom, for survival - against evil. Not all of Germans were Nazis of course. Not even most of them. But all German soldiers were fighting for Nazi.

It doesn't mean that fighting for Axis airforce in any game is 100% unethical.
But on the other hand, fighting for Allies IS 100% ethical.

Oh, please. You're going to defend Stalin?

From 1931-1933 ALONE, about 3-5 million Ukranians starved to death from the forced Collectivization due to Stalin's "policies." He could have cared less.

Oh, right. They did it for the collective "Good of The Soviet Union."

I won't relist all the atrocities conducted under Stalin's Reign of Terror. Any number of books on the market by Robert Service, Simon Sebag Montefiore, etc, can do it better than I.

The point is, Stalin, who entered into a deal with Hitler in August 1939, so that the latter could START the Second World War, and who grabbed Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, and Half of Poland, then immediately rounded up and executed their people in the Ten's of Thousands (remember the Katyn Massacre?) was just as bad, if not worse, Than Hitler.

I don't want to "fight" for Der Fuhrer, any more than I want to fight for Koba (Stalin's nickname). I just would like to fly ALL the airplanes involved in the conflict.

..., and I don't think I'm alone.

LJB