Nerfed flight models or control surface range limitations?

[David603]

Originally Posted by fuzzychickens

Ok, did some "testing" in simulator mode.

A 109g6 with cannon pods on the wings will loop at 450kmh in about 17 secs.

A la5fn will do the same in 17 secs.

To me, it seems if they have just given "counterpart" aircrafts the same turn performance to dumb the game down or "equalize" for balancing purposes.

Anyways, something was screwed with and it's becoming apparent that trying to utilize historic advantages/disadvantages of aircraft (even in sim settings) will be pointless for online gameplay.

The only planes with obvious performance differences are the earlier fighters like the I-153 and I-16.

I'm seriously dissapointed if this is the case, hope it's just a bug.

I tried repeating your test in Il2 1946. Same two aircraft, La5FN and a Bf109G6 with 20mm gunpods.

Started each test flying flat and level at 450km/h at 1000m, full fuel and ammo in both planes. Bank hard right, no flaps, and see how long it takes to reach the starting heading after flying a 360 degree circle without losing altitude.

Turn time in the La5FN was almost exactly what you achieved, my average of three tries was 17 seconds.

The G6 with gunpods produced an average time of 18 seconds.

Results are close enough that I don't think the flight model has been changed.

[fuzzychickens]

Originally Posted by David603

I tried repeating your test in Il2 1946. Same two aircraft, La5FN and a Bf109G6 with 20mm gunpods.

Started each test flying flat and level at 450km/h at 1000m, full fuel and ammo in both planes. Bank hard right, no flaps, and see how long it takes to reach the starting heading after flying a 360 degree circle without losing altitude.

Turn time in the La5FN was almost exactly what you achieved, my average of three tries was 17 seconds.

The G6 with gunpods produced an average time of 18 seconds.

Results are close enough that I don't think the flight model has been changed.

That's my point, a 109g with GUNPODS should be anywhere close to the turn time of an la5fn.

Try this, get a friend online flying a g6 WITHOUT gunpods and see if you can keep on his 6 in a turning circle when you are in la5fn or la7.

The turn performance is WAY off on these two planes.

[David603]

Originally Posted by fuzzychickens

That's my point, a 109g with GUNPODS should be anywhere close to the turn time of an la5fn.

Try this, get a friend online flying a g6 WITHOUT gunpods and see if you can keep on his 6 in a turning circle when you are in la5fn or la7.

The turn performance is WAY off on these two planes.

In what way are you saying the turn times are off? You should be able to out turn a La5FN with a Bf109G6 in stock trim. Therefore the way a Bf109G6 with gunpods is not at too much of a disadvantage at sustained turn rates does not surprise me. If you were saying a Bf109G6 with gunpods could match turn rates with a Yak-3, now that would surprise me.

[Soviet Ace]

I my book "Lavochkin's Piston Engined Fighters", it says that the turning ability of the La-5FN was about 10-12 seconds, and the La-7 was about 14 seconds (depending on altitude as well). Just thought I'd share that little tidbit with you all

[David603]

Originally Posted by Soviet Ace

I my book "Lavochkin's Piston Engined Fighters", it says that the turning ability of the La-5FN was about 10-12 seconds, and the La-7 was about 14 seconds (depending on altitude as well). Just thought I'd share that little tidbit with you all

At what starting speed, altitude and loadout? And with or without flaps? Just thought that if your book does have that kind of detail, I could try to replicate it.

[Soviet Ace]

At about 5-8,000 ft. the La-5FN turns about the same. With full fuel, weapons (no extra gun pods or anything like that.) The La-5FN turns about the same, but obviously with less fuel, it can turn much more since it's lightened.

The La-7, has it at about 6,500-7,500 feet. Same fuel amount and weapons. Bot speeds are at about 80% maybe a bit less, the book doesn't give an exact number, but try it at about 75-80% throttle, and then at Higher altitudes do the same. I'm going to actually go try this myself. I'm going to try it at 90% throttle also, just to see what it's like?

[David603]

Ok, I thought I would try out the turning circles of a few more planes just because I have never done this before. Same use of Il2 1946, same starting at 450km/h at 1000m with full fuel and weapons, 90% throttle and no use of flaps. Went from average of three to best of three for the final result though. Redid the tests for the two planes I tried before as well.

La5FN 17 seconds
La7 18 seconds
Yak-3 14 seconds
Bf109F4 14 seconds
Bf109G2 15 seconds
Bf109G6 16 seconds
-20mm pods 18 seconds
Bf109G10 17 seconds
Bf109K4 18 seconds

All these aircraft are available in Birds of Prey, so it should be possible to repeat these tests there. I'm sure you will agree Oleg Maddox as a Russian is not going to be biased towards the German aircraft, though I have faith that he would not have favoured the Russian aircraft either.

[fuzzychickens]

Originally Posted by David603

Ok, I thought I would try out the turning circles of a few more planes just because I have never done this before. Same use of Il2 1946, same starting at 450km/h at 1000m with full fuel and weapons, 90% throttle and no use of flaps. Went from average of three to best of three for the final result though. Redid the tests for the two planes I tried before as well.

La5FN 17 seconds
La7 18 seconds
Yak-3 14 seconds
Bf109F4 14 seconds
Bf109G2 15 seconds
Bf109G6 16 seconds
-20mm pods 18 seconds
Bf109G10 17 seconds
Bf109K4 18 seconds

All these aircraft are available in Birds of Prey, so it should be possible to repeat these tests there. I'm sure you will agree Oleg Maddox as a Russian is not going to be biased towards the German aircraft, though I have faith that he would not have favoured the Russian aircraft either.

The g6 NEVER could stay in sustained turning circles with an La5fn in 1946 on realistic settings, it can and the some in BOP.

The 109g6 was NOT a turn fighter.

[David603]

Originally Posted by fuzzychickens

The g6 NEVER could stay in sustained turning circles with an La5fn in 1946 on realistic settings, it can and the some in BOP.

The 109g6 was NOT a turn fighter.

The La5FN is not really a turn fighter either, and the Bf109s can always surprise you with their turning circles, despite their bad reputation in this regard. I have all the realism settings turned on in 1946, that is the way I always fly and that's how those results were obtained.

[teambayern]

How big are the problems here? I've always wanted to get into flight sims (got pretty deep into Falcon before my computer died) and was hoping to finally make the plunge now that a real sim has come to the xbox. I'm reading up on things like propwash, adverse yaw, ect. and it seems like that's all there. But next I'm reading up on the specific planes and their advantages and disadvantages. Is it even worth it? Are we talking about minor inconsistencies or serious problems?