The real IL2 focus group (Everyone come in here)

[Yossarian]

It should be in BUT I don't think it will 'destroy' MP because accelerated stalls are in the game, you will not be able to just yank back on the stick unless you want to enter a spin. As Raw Kryptonite say's I promise to close my eyes in a 6g turn and let go of the stick, I don't really do high negative g's so now worries about red outs.

[Anton Yudintsev]

Actually, it is not that easy at all.
Different human bodies will react differently to certain G-forces. True, that on some (let's say 6g) most of pilots will be uncomfortable. But it is not that simple even in that case - effect accumulates, and have long effect, even if you are flying normally, already, you can still be readout/blackened for a while. It is confusing players.
And adding too much choises for MP isn't also good enough - imagine 16 different sessions with different settings and only 2-3 people in each.

I understand your reasons, of course.
Moreover, it were actually us who made this feature. And it is painful to know that the feature that was made, implemented, tested, polished and even presented to public already - isn't in the game now. There were reasons for it. Probably, not good enough for some of you - but we have to make choices all the time, a lot of them.

P.S. You probably don't know, but in October'08, our Arcade mode was much much more closer to current Realistic mode. And Realistic was a bit more close to current Simulation.
Focus tests showed, that average players are confused with that. And publisher even tried to force us to release game without 'Simulation' setting at all - but we insist on it.
Currently, Arcade is much more arcade, but Simulation is still very close to what it was. Yeah, there are no black-outs, and in Campaign (not in Single Missions) we have infinite ammo and fuel, and you can turn HUDs on (but you can turn them off, too), but it is still Simulation, with cockpit view, spins, stalls, flaps controls, no assists etc.
We had a fight with publisher to make flightstick support - they didn't care about it all, and were afraid that it slow down development and risk 1st parties Approvals (more TCRs for peripherial). We've worked directly with Saitek/Thrustmaster/MS to get all samples, and have done flightstick support on our own risk, to make sure the spirit of IL-2 will survive, and flighsim fans will be able to get pleasure from the game.
Yeah, currently everyone, including our publisher understand that it was right to do flighstick support/Simulation mode/etc. Flightsim fans are small audience, less than 2% of all gamers that will buy the game - but they are loyal, they build community, and more important, that is what the game is about - controlling the plane and fighting in the air, not simply arcade like Red Baron. It is also good, that we made Arcade settings more simple, they were right about it. If you look over previews, most of press (and they ARE hardcore players, not casual ones) still feel that even Arcade like it is flight simulation, and almost are not able to control plane in Simulation mode... So there is no just one side of the medal.
But please, do not explain me that absence of blackouts is ruining the game - that is a. not true, b. I know more about what can really ruin the game. You can just play the demo, anf not buy the game, if you really think so. It will be sad, though

[jt_medina]

Anton you are making a BIG mistake.
This is an important feature. You take it out, don´t call it simulator.

[Kartman013]

Oh well, perhaps next time. At least we are moving in the right direction and getting a potentially amazing flight sim for consoles.

[Anton Yudintsev]

Originally Posted by jt_medina

Anton you are making a BIG mistake.
This is an important feature. You take it out, don´t call it simulator.

I suppose, there are now a lot of flight sims on a market, and everyone of othem (except ours), has red-outs?

I've never called the game anyhow, except IL-2 Sturmovik:Birds of Prey.
We are making it, you are voting for it - with your money, and your (possible) loyalty. If it is so important for you - OK, do not even try demo. Or, buy the game, and vote for blackouts in this (and others) polls - than we'll make it in sequel.

But my guess is that this feature is not what make flight sim game a real simulation. Flight sim - by definition - is the simulation of the flight, of the plane dynamics - not of the pilot's body reaction to it. Should 'real' flightsim simulate vomit on a spins as well?

[juz1]

Originally Posted by Anton Yudintsev

I suppose, there are now a lot of flight sims on a market, and everyone of othem (except ours), has red-outs?

I've never called the game anyhow, except IL-2 Sturmovik:Birds of Prey.
We are making it, you are voting for it - with your money, and your (possible) loyalty. If it is so important for you - OK, do not even try demo. Or, buy the game, and vote for blackouts in this (and others) polls - than we'll make it in sequel.

But my guess is that this feature is not what make flight sim game a real simulation. Flight sim - by definition - is the simulation of the flight, of the plane dynamics - not of the pilot's body reaction to it. Should 'real' flightsim simulate vomit on a spins as well?

The point being vomit, unless it really flies up and covers your googles, wouldn't hinder flying...black/red outs and the ensuing slight loss of stick control would interfer with extreme maneouvres and consequently handling...but there are times a combat pilot would risk it in extremis. It would add to gameplay...
Just sayin...
________
Gm foods

[Yossarian]

It's not a deal breaker for me. I am going to buy the game, I would have liked to see blackouts in, but after what Anton said about publisher pressure to not include a sim mode at all I will count myself lucky to have this game with any kind of sim mode, it is more about the flight model than anything else for me.

There some strange choices for sim campaign mode, unlimited ammo, fuel and no blackouts but it's not a deal breaker compared to what other flying games there are for consoles.

Also from reading Anton's comments it looks as if people with different difficulty settings can play in the same server, so us blacking out would give us a serious disadvantage online.

[Anton Yudintsev]

Originally Posted by Yossarian

There some strange choices for sim campaign mode, unlimited ammo, fuel and no blackouts but it's not a deal breaker compared to what other flying games there are for consoles.

1. In single missions, you can customize it yourself and play with limited resources if you want to.
In campaign, that would require us to make two different campaigns - one with limited resources, the other with unlimited. Two is not only twice more work, but actually confusing player - is he finished Campaign, if he had finished it in Arcade mode? Or he will have other missions in Simuation? Who's cooler - the one who finished on Arcade, Realistic and Simulation or the one who finished only once, but with limited ammo? Etc, etc. Keep it simple: Single missions - are hardcore enough, and can be played with limnited resources. Campaign - is more fun, less realistic and can't be played on limited ammo.
2. Blackouts/redouts are not technical characteristics of the plane. It is something related to pilot body, and can't be 'simulated' accurately. Moreover, red/black-outs (blood going to/out brain) is not just something red/black in the eyes. It is physical condition of the pilot. It affects his ability to react, to make decisions. It is something that can't be simulated on a TV screen.
What game can do, is only indicate that, probably in a real life, trained pilot would have red/black-out. (Most of gamers are not in such good shape and so well trained as real pilots were, and would suffer from redouts on smaller forces.) But in any case, your actions and reaction speed won't be really affected by redout.
The same goes to vomite in a spin.

[Raw Kryptonite]

Don't let them get to you Anton.
You've seen on the forum here that there's always something being complained about, and it's always "the end of the world" if things don't go a certain way.

I remember a couple of pilots on Dogfights episodes saying they pulled 9 g's and didn't even notice in the heat of the fight. That's pretty much at the point the plane breaks up.

[Anton Yudintsev]

Originally Posted by juz1

It would add to gameplay...
Just sayin...

I understand the reasons.
Once again, we made this feature. We've just decided to cross it out off the game, for certain reasons.