best plane

[mondo]

Originally Posted by David603

The P47 is certainly an interesting plane to fly. It dives very fast but once you have lost altitude it is hard to get back above your enemy, and even the Bf109 and Fw190, notorious for their poor turning circles, can turn inside it. The plus points are a huge capability to both receive and deal out punishment, but a good pilot in a 109 or 190 will smoke you. This is one of the few planes where I would recommend you take every head on pass opportunity available.

Have to disagree 100%. Any P47 (with the exception of the 'N') at low altitude is a poor performer compared with most 190's but at 25,000ft a P47D completely out performs all the 190's, even the Dora 9. 190's have quite poor high altitude turbo chargers and extremely high wing loading so they stall allot in the thin air.

Some 109's have excellent low speed turning circles due to the wing slats, low wing loading and high power to weight ratio. I would never try to out turn a 109, probably with the exception of the K4. 190's also at high speed can have quite a good instantaneous turn for about 90 degrees. At 400mph a Dora can out turn quite a few good low speed turners.

[David603]

Originally Posted by mondo

Have to disagree 100%. Any P47 (with the exception of the 'N') at low altitude is a poor performer compared with most 190's but at 25,000ft a P47D completely out performs all the 190's, even the Dora 9. 190's have quite poor high altitude turbo chargers and extremely high wing loading so they stall allot in the thin air.

Some 109's have excellent low speed turning circles due to the wing slats, low wing loading and high power to weight ratio. I would never try to out turn a 109, probably with the exception of the K4. 190's also at high speed can have quite a good instantaneous turn for about 90 degrees. At 400mph a Dora can out turn quite a few good low speed turners.

Perhaps that is because I tend to fly lower down, in the 5-15,000ft range, and my experience is based on that. This is where the 190s perform best, especially the BMW 801 engined variants.

Some 109's do indeed have quite good turning circles, especially the F and early G models, but I have never heard anyone say the 109 had a low wing loading. The E has a high wing loading for its period, the F, my favourite 109, has a fairly typical wing loading compared to its contemporaries and from the G onwards the wing loading is average to high. The 109 can turn well at low speed but is a poor high speed turner and has a poor instantaneous turn, while the 190 is good because it loses less of its turning ability as speed increases than most other fighters.

[mondo]

The F has typical wing loading (if has a different wing to the E but it was still a good turner) but as I say, a very good power to weight ratio. The G's are still good knife fighters and the G2 is pretty hot.

Probably the most comprehensive details anywhere, net, book or otherwise on the 109 are here: http://www.kurfurst.org/

The 190's ability to turn tight in the first 90 degrees at high speed is the reason why the 109's can't, the stick force needed to move the elevators at those speeds.