FWs Durabillity

[Ice_Eagle]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

And, why is it that no amount of .50 caliber MG fire can break the wing of a FW-190

Notice the P-51's in the background

[Pursuivant]

Then it appears that IL2 actually does have some mechanism that allows wing failure due to air resistance or G forces, because shooting at a static target it is IMPOSSIBLE to remove a FW-190's wing using .50 cal BMG fire.

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/attachm...1&d=1445185349

[Ice_Eagle]

Statics use an entirely different damage model. And to be honest, I'm just happy
that they blowup/burn when strafing an airfield. Its not like your sitting there
in a helicopter continually shooting at a 190's wing.

[RPS69]

Hmmm... try to break it without the mortars. Maybe what is modeled is the mortar explosion there.
You could check it on the ground too, Pursuivant.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by RPS69

Hmmm... try to break it without the mortars. Maybe what is modeled is the mortar explosion there.
You could check it on the ground too, Pursuivant.

Done, using the FW-190A-4 in my test mission environment, although I only made two trials.

In both cases, the Wgr.21 didn't cause wing breakage because the rocket is immune to weapon fire. It has no DM.

That means that my guess in my previous post seems more likely - IL2 actually has some mechanism that allows parts weakened by damage to break under G-stress or high air resistance.

If so, that's really good news. Not only is it realistic, but a very similar effect could be used to simulate progressive damage and weakening of surrounding parts due to fires.

(Currently, it appears that fires either burn forever, burn until the plane's fuel runs out, or burn for some number of seconds until they trigger an explosion, depending on the plane.)

[majorfailure]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

(Currently, it appears that fires either burn forever, burn until the plane's fuel runs out, or burn for some number of seconds until they trigger an explosion, depending on the plane.)

I think there are two stages of fire - at least for fuel tanks. One that burns forever, and does not do any damage, and another that eventually will lead to explosion of the tank. And I also think it is now possible that a fire reaches "second stage" on its own. Also it is possible to turn fire stage one into full blown with only a (few) hit(s) of incendiary ammo.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by majorfailure

I think there are two stages of fire - at least for fuel tanks. One that burns forever, and does not do any damage, and another that eventually will lead to explosion of the tank. And I also think it is now possible that a fire reaches "second stage" on its own. Also it is possible to turn fire stage one into full blown with only a (few) hit(s) of incendiary ammo.

My guess is that IL2's damage model includes the option to include special effects which can include explosions. They might be timed ("10 seconds and then explosion"), they might be a random chance over time ("1% chance every second the fire continues), or they might be a cumulative chance over time ("1% chance of explosion +1% every second").

But, since the .sfs and buttons files are some of the most closely held information in the game - even on the modding sites.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by Ice_Eagle

Statics use an entirely different damage model.

Sorry that I wasn't clearer. In my test mission I use the flying models. I just have them start on the ground so that I have a very close range, non-moving target so that there can be no mistakes about what part I hit, how often I hit, and whether a particular gun loses effectiveness at range.

I also use Arcade Mode so I can determine exactly where my bullets hit, and what effect my firing has on AI.

Yes, it's a very artificial test environment, but it's taught me a lot about the IL2 damage model and about how the actual planes were built.


So, I repeat: on the ground, against a flyable FW-190, it is impossible to break that aircraft's wing using .50 caliber BMG. I've tested this something like 25 times now and I always get the same result.


Where I'm obviously wrong is that it appears that IL2 actually does have some mechanism where parts weakened by gunfire can break under G-stress or high speeds. That's very good news indeed.

Now if they just extend that same effect to fires rather than having a "plane explodes" effect set to trigger sometime after the plane is set on fire.

[RPS69]

Hey Ice, you sure this was unmodded?

I couldn't repeat your results on more than 100 trials with friendly targets.

[Ice_Eagle]

Originally Posted by RPS69

Hey Ice, you sure this was unmodded?

I couldn't repeat your results on more than 100 trials with friendly targets.

The damage models on the 190's were bone stock. With Wgr.21 attached I can break, or something breaks the wing. Without Wgr.21 attached I cannot break the wing. I killed the pilot, engine, rudder, fin, elevators, ailerons, landing gear, but the wings remained intact. So Pursuivant is on to something here.