Damage Model Bug Stomping - Part 2

[majorfailure]

Originally Posted by Janosch

So a pilot can die if hit by a machine gun? Madness!

Please. I did nowhere state it is uncommon or unconvincing that a pilot gets hit or killed by rifle caliber rounds. Only in an fully armoured canopy it is.

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

Not impossible, just unlikely.

The IL2 had ~5mm of armor around the cockpit sides and just behind the canopy, plus armor glass at the front and a heavier armor plate behind the pilot's head.

At close range (i.e., 100 m or less) a 7.62mm AP bullet can punch through the side armor, even at an angle.

This thread nicely explains penetration of German 7.62mm bullets vs. armor plate and aircraft aluminum:

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=72990

Should have been clearer at the first try. From around 150-200m, dead ahead. Through a spot were I thought there would be enough armour. And I got hit a few more times, also by Bf110 rear gunner, though not fatally. All from dead ahead. Ther is either a small gap in the armour of real IL-2, that is modeled correctly, or the armour model has a small gap.

But I think we digress at least a little. I hope I have time to do a more in detail review of test results this weekend.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by majorfailure

Should have been clearer at the first try. From around 150-200m, dead ahead. Through a spot were I thought there would be enough armour. And I got hit a few more times, also by Bf110 rear gunner, though not fatally. All from dead ahead. There is either a small gap in the armour of real IL-2, that is modeled correctly, or the armour model has a small gap.

I've noticed in previous tests that there can be gaps in coverage of forward armor or armor glass. In particular, otherwise well-armored planes can be vulnerable to damage 12 o'clock high, or occasionally 12 o'clock low.

Sometimes this is realistic, sometimes there is an artificial gap due to the way that IL2 models the intersection of armor plate and armor glass ahead of the cockpit.

Looking at the armor diagrams for the IL2, I think that there is a gap in the protection for the pilot though the canopy from 12 o'clock high and from 1-2 o'clock & 10-11 o'clock level or high. After all, the canopy couldn't be armored that heavily because it had to be light enough to slide or jettison in a hurry.

Additionally, at 100-200m, a 7.62mm AP bullet might have just enough energy to punch through 5 mm of armor plate, especially if it was a head-on shot where the bullet's speed is combined with the speed of the oncoming aircraft.

But, I don't know how sophisticated IL2's armor penetration algorithms are. So, I don't know if it takes things like target speed or angle of impact into account when determining penetration or damage.