Ammunition power

[Insuber]

Originally Posted by Skoshi Tiger

The Developers have made numerous changes to flight models through out the life of the sim to make it more 'realistic' (with the limitations of the game. Why didn't they change the weapon power? I don't think it was some conspiracy to taqrget the Blue side. I think that they were trying to make a reasonable model of the the type of damage that could be expected in real life (within the limitations of the game engine) Of course it's not perfect. No one can make it perfect.

AFAIK the damage models of some weapons/ammunitions are not correct (blue or red, I do not care a damn), that is they are not 'realistic', and with a little tweaking of the parameters (and the mod guys say that it is a very easy tweaking) the 'realism' can be improved.

When I say lack of 'realism' I intend:

- the lack of data coherence when comparing the effects of similar ammunition fired by different weapons in the game, which strangely enough yields sometimes very different results (DM is in cause here),
- the lack of correspondence with historical accounts and guncam movies, even though this method is more prone to flaws and subjective interpretations.

I brought the example of the 4 cm radius of damage of a type of 12.7 gun, versus the 15 cm radius of a different type of 12.7 gun. Is this logical or coherent ? IMHO it isn't, and the obvious results are a huge loss of 'realism' if you dogfight in a plane with the first type of gun.

I have to go now, I need to practice so to improve my hit ratio by at least 50% ... hoping that it is enough .

Regards,
Insuber

[ZaltysZ]

Originally Posted by Insuber

- the lack of data coherence when comparing the effects of similar ammunition fired by different weapons in the game, which strangely enough yields sometimes very different results (DM is in cause here),

Bullet isn't missile, which propels itself and its characteristics do not depend on launcher.

Bullet accelerates only when it is in the barrel of the gun, so barrel length directly effects muzzle velocity. Higher velocity allows the bullet to fly in less curved trajectory and do more damage (penetration). Guns with different length of barrel will have different effects on target and will have to be aimed differently, despite the same ammunition.

Difference between guns increases even more when they are fired in bursts. The higher muzzle velocity is, the higher recoil will be and the more subsequent shots will be thrown away from aim point, so higher muzzle velocity (longer barrel) will result in larger spread when burst time (or shots count) increases.

The last thing is RPM of the gun. It mostly depends on how strong are the materials from which the gun is made. Basically designers trade between high RPM and high muzzle velocity, so the gun will not be destroyed just by firing it. Higher RPM is desirable when firing from unstable platforms such as aircraft, because it decreases spread which occurs because of platform instability. However, high RPM coupled with high recoil can give very very high spread.

So, to sum up: different guns with the same ammunition will fire differently.

[Insuber]

Originally Posted by ZaltysZ

Bullet isn't missile, which propels itself and its characteristics do not depend on launcher.

Bullet accelerates only when it is in the barrel of the gun, so barrel length directly effects muzzle velocity. Higher velocity allows the bullet to fly in less curved trajectory and do more damage (penetration). Guns with different length of barrel will have different effects on target and will have to be aimed differently, despite the same ammunition.

Difference between guns increases even more when they are fired in bursts. The higher muzzle velocity is, the higher recoil will be and the more subsequent shots will be thrown away from aim point, so higher muzzle velocity (longer barrel) will result in larger spread when burst time (or shots count) increases.

The last thing is RPM of the gun. It mostly depends on how strong are the materials from which the gun is made. Basically designers trade between high RPM and high muzzle velocity, so the gun will not be destroyed just by firing it. Higher RPM is desirable when firing from unstable platforms such as aircraft, because it decreases spread which occurs because of platform instability. However, high RPM coupled with high recoil can give very very high spread.

So, to sum up: different guns with the same ammunition will fire differently.

Zaltys,

Well said and agreed, in principle. But my point is that the "different" is way too much so in game, especially for HE rounds where the amount of HE is the same, and penetration is a second order factor. In particular, if true, the 4 cm vs. 15 cm damage radius for two different .50 guns (that is a 14x in effectiveness factor as far as affected area, and 50x as far as affected volume ...) is not "realistic".

Also, I believe that even for ordinary AP shells the penetration effect on thin aluminum surfaces is *approximately* the same, independently from the bullet energy, since the aluminum foil resistance is again a second order factor.

Going to a more subjective talk, I'm ready to accept a penalization for using weaker planes/guns, but not ready to pepper a Tomahawk with hundreds of .50 well aimed rounds from convergence distance, only to see him loosing some small debris and flying home with a large "bras d'honneur" popping out of the cockpit ... You know what I mean, if you don't, just try ...

Regards,
Insuber

[ZaltysZ]

There is big problem with ammunition types in this game. All heavy MGs in this game have only AP (AP-T) rounds and no incendiary or explosive ones. That is why .50, MG131, MG151, BredaSAFATs look so weak.

[Insuber]

Originally Posted by ZaltysZ

There is big problem with ammunition types in this game. All heavy MGs in this game have only AP (AP-T) rounds and no incendiary or explosive ones. That is why .50, MG131, MG151, BredaSAFATs look so weak.

Thanks Zaltys, that's right. I can't explain still the relative difference between Brownings (and HO's, btw) and the rest of .50's.

Regards,
Ins