Dogfighting -does 4.11-4.12 patch address this?

[MaxGunz]

Originally Posted by Derda508

After some wild curving I managed to get behind one of them, tried to get it into that miserable gunsight ..

Take time to learn deflection shooting and you won't have this problem so bad.

Do you keep ordering your AI to cover you? They forget otherwise. Not saying that they will do a great job anyway.

AI enemy always go after the host online or off. If you host online coop vs AI, have the host do the drag and your mostly ignored friends do the bag.

[MaxGunz]

Originally Posted by gaunt1

The turn rate of the La-5/7 series is clearly overmodeled ingame. (you can actually turn with an A6M Zero in a La-7!) But with realistic turn rates, it still shouldnt have any problems outturning the Fw. According to NII VVS tests, the worst of the Lavochkins, the basic La-5 had 0.5 seconds advantage over the best Fw, the La-5F had 2, and the La-5FN had 3 seconds.

Don't these all depend on the speeds and altitude of the planes? Especially if they are co-speed and co-alt.

AVG P-40's worked advantages to where they did out turn the Japanese but only at higher speeds. That's P-40's! At least one British P-40 unit in Africa found that they could out turn 109's =in dives= while not so well otherwise.

No plane does everything best but some pilots make it seem like that to others.

Slow turning combat is for rookies anyway. It effectively cripples your ability to use the vertical.

[gaunt1]

Originally Posted by MaxGunz

Don't these all depend on the speeds and altitude of the planes? Especially if they are co-speed and co-alt.

Yes, you are right, but I was referring to the best turn time of the La-5 and Fw-190.

And btw, I actually tested the La-7 vs A6M2-21 (Ace AI), altitude was set to 1000m, but it quicky ended up @ almost sea level. While I wasnt able to outturn the japanese, I could keep up with him. No matter what he tried, I was able to follow. Speed was around 180-220 km/h. I dont think it is possible in RL with wing loading of ~ 180kg/m2. (vs 105kg/m2) If this isnt overmodelling, then what could be called overmodelling at all?

[Janosch]

Originally Posted by gaunt1

And btw, I actually tested the La-7 vs A6M2-21 (Ace AI), altitude was set to 1000m, but it quicky ended up @ almost sea level. While I wasnt able to outturn the japanese, I could keep up with him. No matter what he tried, I was able to follow. Speed was around 180-220 km/h. I dont think it is possible in RL with wing loading of ~ 180kg/m2. (vs 105kg/m2) If this isnt overmodelling, then what could be called overmodelling at all?

What fuel levels did you put in? Note that I don't know for sure what amount would be anywhere near realistic. Anyway, I found that when I had 70% fuel for my La-7, and 30% for the zero, I couldn't shake him off my tail. But it seems that the AI starts hiccuping seriously when altitude gets very low! Half-hearted scissors, engage! The zero started to fly very irrationally, missing several good opportunities to get a shot, and finally plummeted to the sea (map was Solomons 43).

[gaunt1]

100%, both planes. I dont say that it was easy to do, but it is possible. The hardest thing is to survive the the head on burst of the Zero without any damage to the wings, (else impossible to do it) but then, if you manage to get in the Zeros 6, then he cant shake you. I did this test on Okinawa map, and stayed in his six for about 10 minutes. Then I got bored and ended it with a short burst.

[MaxGunz]

The AI can't out-slow a good human pilot in the same plane in IL-2. You can make uncoordinated turns (like a skidding turn) that they can't for a little extra low speed margin. Record an ntrk and look at The Ball during playback to check there.

You can also do consecutive 360's in each plane at whatever speed. Make ntrks and if you do find questionable results then you will have something to submit to Daedalos.

For me the thing to do is a rolling yoyo behind a turning target so that my average speed is higher but my longer path keeps me behind. It does mean that my shot opportunities are shorter and trickier but the AI isn't good enough to see them coming up like it does when I'm latched on the six at under 200-250m. Lift increases by the square of speed. 10% faster is 21% more lift for the same plane versus 10% more momentum to turn against.

[Derda508]

Originally Posted by MaxGunz

Take time to learn deflection shooting and you won't have this problem so bad.

You are absolutely right. If was a better pilot, I would not be shot down that often. If I was a better marksman, I would get more kills.
But the gunsights in Ki-27 and early Ki-43 makes deflection shooting even more difficult, beause they are blocking so much field of view, that´s why I curse them.

[MaxGunz]

What FOV are you using?

From close in you don't use the sights much. Just get the fire across the nose and let him fly through the stream. Zoom the view to at least middle and use the sight like the bead on the front of a shotgun.

At 100m and under just go by where your nose is pointing and give it 1/2 second or less, trigger timing is worth far more than sight picture which zoomed in by the time you see the target inside the sight it's too late to shoot anyway. Your biggest problem is not ramming the target.

Yes it takes practice. Lots of practice. Sitting ducks bombers with no ammo practice just so you can work on seeing what works and not to the point where it's reflex.

I tell the same thing when it comes to flying better. Practice just flying with no enemies so you can concentrate on basic and advanced maneuvers while being able to watch the instruments and just some view over the nose until flying without slip becomes second nature.

When you try and learn/perfect everything at once, you don't learn any of it really well. IRL the ones that spent months just flying before working on gunnery and then tactics had the best chance in combat and even then they picked up more after training than before. You don't want to be struggling to keep up when you should be polishing your SA skills. You might as well be a LW rookie in 1945 or a Brit newbie in the BoB.

[Pugo3]

A very late edit to clarify for those reading this thread re 4.11/4.12 - my original posting was ..." does 4.11 - 4.12 patch address this?" Reviewing this thread today, I can see that somewhere along the way my question was lost. My comments about the AI predominantly 'jousting' [head on attacks after head on attack, flying away for yet another head on attack] was referring to old versions 4.07 - 4.10, NOT towards 4.11 - 4.12! I had not installed these latest patches and was hoping that this might have been corrected.

YES, it has!!!! These AI FIGHT, and that's all good. Again, much thanks to TD and all involved, this is such a great correction. I get trounced in the Ace mode, which is appropriate, challenging and historic, and having to start at lower levels. I am forced to fly smarter and be more disciplined with gunnery and patient for the right opportunity. Getting trounced isn't fun, but it should have several more levels above where you're at to prompt you to grow and continue improving.

Many thanks again, just excellent!

p3

[Kittle]

The particular aircraft the AI is flying does impact their choice of tactics. Against P-51s it is them making diving passes at me if they start the fight with an altitude advantage, which I feel is pretty spot on to how it should be. The largest improvement in 4.11/4.12 that I see is the way the AI fights when it's cornered. Say you manage to turn the tables on the Mustang and make him blow a bunch of E giving you the tactical advantage. Where before you got a very predictable series of barrel rolls, now it is different. Lots of scissoring and out of plane maneuvers. And should you over shoot your opponent, the AI on higher levels gunnery will make you pay. I personally love the way the AI fights now, and with no time to play online lately, that's important to me.