weapons firepower

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by Notorious M.i.G.

I've never had much luck killing stuff with MG131s alone personally, but the other .50s work just fine (especially the UB, which is a scary piece of work). Even the 2 Brownings in the P-39Q-10 can cause a lot of hurt on their own.

Funnily enough, with just the smoketrails and custom sounds from 4.12 my confidence in killing stuff with the .50s has soared. Previously the American setup of wing mounted .50s were a bit hit-and-miss (literally) for me, but I've suddenly had a huge jump in accuracy and overall lethality since the patch.

Even the MG131s and the Ho103 can be used to really put the hurt on. You need a little more specific aim to say the engine or a fuel tank to really put the hurt on quickly but a Ki-61 with four of them for example can make one pass and cripple a P-40 or P-39 and seriously damage a Corsair or Hellcat. The Browning .50cals or the Berezin UB are the stars... as you say even two .50cals in the P-39s nose are absolutely deadly.

[pandacat]

Regarding aiming directly from 6 and hitting tail assembly, I saw many WWII gun cam footages where bf109 got blown to pieces by p51's 6guns or got wings ripped off when getting hit directly from behind.

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by pandacat

Regarding aiming directly from 6 and hitting tail assembly, I saw many WWII gun cam footages where bf109 got blown to pieces by p51's 6guns or got wings ripped off when getting hit directly from behind.

Works in-game too... try shooting a Bf109 at exact convergence. You'll rip em to shreds if the convergence is close enough in.

[MaxGunz]

Originally Posted by pandacat

Regarding aiming directly from 6 and hitting tail assembly, I saw many WWII gun cam footages where bf109 got blown to pieces by p51's 6guns or got wings ripped off when getting hit directly from behind.

That's from selected films, the cherries someone picked. You might have seen an oxygen cylinder or similar explode too. I have seen plenty where that doesn't happen.

Do they tell you what happened to the target before? Or how many G's stress the ripped off wings were under when they ripped?

Long ago I complained about near invulnerable engines on a Russian bomber. Then someone posted screenies of the wing landing gear which is very strong in IL2 as are tail struts and some structural parts. IRL you don't have to destroy a whole seat armor to put a round or two through the back. Or maybe the hits numbers are just to make a hole, I dunno.

Have you ever made NTRK files and reviewed them with ARCADE=1 set in the config? If you haven't then you should do that with playback. When it comes near time that you shot, pause, set the view on the gunsight so you see it line up, slow time down to 1/4 and when the shooting starts, pause. Jump the view to the target and slew around till you see your plane shooting and tracers and bring the view in so you can see the target and what shots hit. IL2 in ARCADE makes an arrow showing the path the bullet hit BUT not how far it penetrated. The arrow point is not the shot, just the line it traveled.
Playing or practicing in that mode, you see white dots on the target where you hit. They stay a few seconds only. You know where you hit, it is a training tool you can self-answer some questions with.

[Notorious M.i.G.]

Originally Posted by IceFire

Even the MG131s and the Ho103 can be used to really put the hurt on. You need a little more specific aim to say the engine or a fuel tank to really put the hurt on quickly but a Ki-61 with four of them for example can make one pass and cripple a P-40 or P-39 and seriously damage a Corsair or Hellcat. The Browning .50cals or the Berezin UB are the stars... as you say even two .50cals in the P-39s nose are absolutely deadly.

I actually started a dynamic campaign in the Ki-61 Ko yesterday and I was pretty impressed at how easily it can knock down a Corsair with a well aimed burst. I guess I'm just spoiled by MG151s when it comes to German fighters though

[MaxGunz]

Originally Posted by Notorious M.i.G.

I actually started a dynamic campaign in the Ki-61 Ko yesterday and I was pretty impressed at how easily it can knock down a Corsair with a well aimed burst. I guess I'm just spoiled by MG151s when it comes to German fighters though

Play early Yaks. You will get better fire discipline. They fly nice.

[pandacat]

Yes, you may be right about cherry picking. IRL, there are still some cherries to pick, but do you even have any cherry to pick in-game at all? I admit that shredding wings do happen ingame somtimes, but I have never seen 50cal exploding target directly from 6. Maybe at an angle, diving or climbing shots, but not in lvl fly and directly at 6. Also you are correct about it is the G-stress that ripped off damaged wing, not the bullets themselves, but isn't G-stress also modelled ingame? Or are we simply flying in airless vaccum ingame?

[Laurwin]

Well, being at convergence distance is ideal for most killing power with 0.50cal MGs. Either at exact convergence or +/- 50m within the convergence distance.

When you got 200m convergence, and your shooting at enemy from 500m distance, taking 1 sec snapshots at 90deg deflection bandits, don't expect the enemy to explode!

On the other hand, 0.50cal tends to kill and wound enemy pilots eventually. High rate of fire tends to help in this also, in my opinion.

Even fw-190 burns up nicely, when you hit his main fuel tank, behind pilot seat, a couple of times

I think aiming along the centre fuselage is good with these 0.50cals (unless you're against Japanese planes, wingroot is excellent target for those)
If, you hit the engine, or pilot, enemy is going down soon. Center fuselage hit can probably light up main fuel tank, or kill cables. Rear fuselage would destroy elevator and rudder tabs, and cut cables.

[majorfailure]

Originally Posted by pandacat

Yes, you may be right about cherry picking. IRL, there are still some cherries to pick, but do you even have any cherry to pick in-game at all? I admit that shredding wings do happen ingame somtimes, but I have never seen 50cal exploding target directly from 6. Maybe at an angle, diving or climbing shots, but not in lvl fly and directly at 6. Also you are correct about it is the G-stress that ripped off damaged wing, not the bullets themselves, but isn't G-stress also modelled ingame? Or are we simply flying in airless vaccum ingame?

vs. German/Italian opposition, explosion or even wingloss happens rather seldom (And when shooting from direct six, against 190s it should not happen at all -armor protects the fuel tank from that angle). But against Japanese planes you get the total destruction quite often.
Using Italian SAFAT guns, I've ripped wings of Hurricanes more than once, and often their wings were loaded when shot at. So there may be a combined effect of G load and damage modeled.

[MaxGunz]

It takes less damage to break a structure that is under more load. In IL2 it is supposed to be that a damaged plane will take less G's before airframe failure and there's a progressive system of stress and damages behind it. IIRC that started after 2007.