Dogfighting -does 4.11-4.12 patch address this?

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by X-Raptor

+1 Pugo3! well described, I agree with you at 100%.. but hey!, you can notice that this forum isn't very friendly for people like you & me.. check this instead where other simmers like us describe and (with reasons) criticize 4.12 A.I. : http://www.mission4today.com/index.p...wtopic&t=17382

..and you will not see any reply by any "ace/teacher" like you can find here in this forum where people only tell you that A.I. 4.12 is all OK(...) and reason is just because you are a shit-player

I (and others) encouraged you to improve your flying skills and were even willing to provide examples of how... I certainly didn't call you a "shit player".

[Derda508]

I know, that the initial question was about dogfighting in QMB, but I just had an experience in a campaign, that I want to share.
Presently I am flying two blue campaigns parallel: Desaster at the Frontiers (Europe) with Bf 109 and later Fw 190, and Asia for the Asians (Pacific) with Ki-27 and later Ki-43. I am late in 1941 in both campaigns and it is quite unbelievable that the 109 F2 and the Ki-27 were in the air and fighting at the same time.
But to the point: In the pacific campaing with Ki-27 against I-153 and I-16 you get all the dogfighting that you can wish for. The plane set of both sides is build for this. The Russian I-16 would love to get you to dogfight in your Bf 109 as well, but you would be pretty unwise to do it. So, what kind of fight you get, depends very much on the aircraft you choose. With P-47 vs. Fw 190 it seems pretty unlikely to get a dogfight, with the rice bowls against the Ratas you will have it. And, thanks to the new patches, some of the AI will surprise you even after years of playing: yesterday evening, close to the end of a mission, I encountered a pair of I-16 in my Ki-27. After some wild curving I managed to get behind one of them, tried to get it into that miserable gunsight .. and was shot down by the other one. I watched the track and yes: it really looked as if they did me in with very well coordinated drag and bag tactics. I repeated the mission several times (well, I had to, because I was shot down ...) but whenever I met these two Ratas, they did the same thing, even when I still had some wingmen with me: picking me out as the flight leader, one playing the bait, the other one getting behind me for the kill. And then they tried the same with the rest of my flight. Well, I think that this is VERY impressive for AI behaviour and certainly a most exiting dogfight.

[MaxGunz]

Originally Posted by Derda508

After some wild curving I managed to get behind one of them, tried to get it into that miserable gunsight ..

Take time to learn deflection shooting and you won't have this problem so bad.

Do you keep ordering your AI to cover you? They forget otherwise. Not saying that they will do a great job anyway.

AI enemy always go after the host online or off. If you host online coop vs AI, have the host do the drag and your mostly ignored friends do the bag.

[Derda508]

Originally Posted by MaxGunz

Take time to learn deflection shooting and you won't have this problem so bad.

You are absolutely right. If was a better pilot, I would not be shot down that often. If I was a better marksman, I would get more kills.
But the gunsights in Ki-27 and early Ki-43 makes deflection shooting even more difficult, beause they are blocking so much field of view, that´s why I curse them.

[MaxGunz]

What FOV are you using?

From close in you don't use the sights much. Just get the fire across the nose and let him fly through the stream. Zoom the view to at least middle and use the sight like the bead on the front of a shotgun.

At 100m and under just go by where your nose is pointing and give it 1/2 second or less, trigger timing is worth far more than sight picture which zoomed in by the time you see the target inside the sight it's too late to shoot anyway. Your biggest problem is not ramming the target.

Yes it takes practice. Lots of practice. Sitting ducks bombers with no ammo practice just so you can work on seeing what works and not to the point where it's reflex.

I tell the same thing when it comes to flying better. Practice just flying with no enemies so you can concentrate on basic and advanced maneuvers while being able to watch the instruments and just some view over the nose until flying without slip becomes second nature.

When you try and learn/perfect everything at once, you don't learn any of it really well. IRL the ones that spent months just flying before working on gunnery and then tactics had the best chance in combat and even then they picked up more after training than before. You don't want to be struggling to keep up when you should be polishing your SA skills. You might as well be a LW rookie in 1945 or a Brit newbie in the BoB.

[Pugo3]

A very late edit to clarify for those reading this thread re 4.11/4.12 - my original posting was ..." does 4.11 - 4.12 patch address this?" Reviewing this thread today, I can see that somewhere along the way my question was lost. My comments about the AI predominantly 'jousting' [head on attacks after head on attack, flying away for yet another head on attack] was referring to old versions 4.07 - 4.10, NOT towards 4.11 - 4.12! I had not installed these latest patches and was hoping that this might have been corrected.

YES, it has!!!! These AI FIGHT, and that's all good. Again, much thanks to TD and all involved, this is such a great correction. I get trounced in the Ace mode, which is appropriate, challenging and historic, and having to start at lower levels. I am forced to fly smarter and be more disciplined with gunnery and patient for the right opportunity. Getting trounced isn't fun, but it should have several more levels above where you're at to prompt you to grow and continue improving.

Many thanks again, just excellent!

p3

[Kittle]

The particular aircraft the AI is flying does impact their choice of tactics. Against P-51s it is them making diving passes at me if they start the fight with an altitude advantage, which I feel is pretty spot on to how it should be. The largest improvement in 4.11/4.12 that I see is the way the AI fights when it's cornered. Say you manage to turn the tables on the Mustang and make him blow a bunch of E giving you the tactical advantage. Where before you got a very predictable series of barrel rolls, now it is different. Lots of scissoring and out of plane maneuvers. And should you over shoot your opponent, the AI on higher levels gunnery will make you pay. I personally love the way the AI fights now, and with no time to play online lately, that's important to me.